The best ITB car nobody is racing?

[Greg Amy]

The fastest car out there with one fuel stop will win a 3 hour. That's an ITR car.

Kirk's not talking about a 3-hr enduro, he's talking about 3-hr legs in a long enduro.

And in endurance racing - certainly at the club level - it's not about speed, it's about, well, endurance. Spec Miatas, and cars prepped to roundabout typical SM level, are always at the pointy end at the finish of the long races because they're bullet-proof and keep going, and going, and going, and going...

The faster cars, such as ITRs, always seem to get themselves into trouble in enduros. Part of that is simply the nature of the beast, where they're tougher on equipment, tires, brakes and parts aren't as "tough"; but secondarily - and I'm going to get myself in trouble here - they "tend" to be driven by people who are more aggressive and take more chances when passing. Given the speed differentials of these cars versus the vast majority of the field (i.e., Spec Miatas) this taking-chances attitude tends to get them into trouble. Many a car starting from the pole spends a lot of time in the pits replacing go-fast parts and getting body damage repaired...

Nope, just take a extremely dependable, easy-to-drive, easy-on-equipment, decent-speed (but not necessarily the fastest) car, add in 3-hour legs, and be the Energizer. That answer is a lightly-modified Miata, as in Spec Miata with some additional basic speed mods. Hell, I'd even run the basic SM suspension with re-tuned shocks, open (but quiet) exhaust, pull the intake restrictor and add a good intake, throw on some R6 Ho-Hos and lightweight wheels, harder-compound pads, and go win endurance races. Let the ITR cars beat themselves up and wave as you pass them while they're in the pits... - GA

[erlrich]

Nope, just take a extremely dependable, easy-to-drive, easy-on-equipment, decent-speed (but not necessarily the fastest) car, add in 3-hour legs, and be the Energizer. That answer is a lightly-modified Miata, as in Spec Miata with some additional basic speed mods. Hell, I'd even run the basic SM suspension with re-tuned shocks, open (but quiet) exhaust, pull the intake restrictor and add a good intake, throw on some R6 Ho-Hos and lightweight wheels, harder-compound pads, and go win endurance races. Let the ITR cars beat themselves up and wave as you pass them while they're in the pits... - GA

It seems to me like one of the lighter, 4-cyl, ITR cars, driven by guys with an "enduro" mentality, would be the ticket. Even if you had to do two stops to every one of the Miata's you should still be able to out pace it as long as you could maintain about a 3-4 sec/lap speed difference. Something like the S2k, Integra, or Celica might be the way to go.

Of course, the prep cost on any of those cars is going to be way more than your typical SM or even ITA Miata, and I have no idea about the reliability of any of those cars in a 12 hour race, so the Miata may very well still be the best bet.

Back to the ITB question - some interesting picks, and after some research I can see why the Golfs and CRXs and Preludes are as popular as they are. Some of those cars are near impossible to find (try searching Craigslist for a Fire Arrow) or have absolutely zero aftermarket support (shocks for a Geo...you're kidding, right?), so unless you're a glutton for punishment I guess mainstream is the way to go...

[Russ Myers]

Get a Pinto, Cheap, and parts out the wazoo. and really bulletproof.

Russ

[jjjanos]

Kirk's not talking about a 3-hr enduro, he's talking about 3-hr legs in a long enduro.

And in endurance racing - certainly at the club level - it's not about speed, it's about, well, endurance. Spec Miatas, and cars prepped to roundabout typical SM level, are always at the pointy end at the finish of the long races because they're bullet-proof and keep going, and going, and going, and going...

It's the 17-year locust theory -- swamp the predators with massive numbers because they can't all of the offspring... one of the vermin is going to survive.

The faster cars, such as ITRs... "tend" to be driven by people who are more aggressive and take more chances when passing.

Compared to the typical Spec Me driver?

That being said, an ITA Miata is, IMO, an excellent long enduro car.

[Greg Amy]

It's the 17-year locust theory...

I disagree, because at least in the enduros that we do along the East Coast here, we keep seeing the same locusts at the pointy end each race...

Compared to the typical Spec Me driver?

Point taken. Said differently, it seems the faster cars with the higher speed delta to the rest of the field tend to try and push that delta-speed tactically a bit harder, instead of showing patience and using that speed advantage strategically.

I speak, of course, wholly in generalities, and intentionally.

GA

[JeffYoung]

Holy Jesus I agree with Greg.

I think a Bimmerworld Miata (SM no less) WON the overall at the first VIR 13 hour.

My recollection is that SMs are routinely in the top 20 overall, a lot of them, at VIR for the 13 hour for the reasons Greg and Kirk lay out.

There is no more perfect car for enduro work than a Miata. We've run the entire 13 hour on one set of pads with plenty left at the end, and with 6 tires (just changed the left sides). If you can get the car to run more than the 1.5 hours it will on the stock tank (fuel starves), it could win overall I'm pretty sure. That said, the Bimmerworld guys have done really well in their BMWs the last few years and have sorted that stuff out for long hauls.

13 overall is an interesting race. We are taking a different approach this year, a high grip, but lowish hp car that we hope can run 2 hours. We'll see how it pans out.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I agree with Greg too - now that he clarified what he considered to be the ITA spec. My car uses 2 more gallons per 20 minute session than an SSM-spec 1.6L Miata...

I still think a set of patient drivers in an S2000 could cruise around just in front of the buzzing hoard of Miata's then lay the wood to them whenever they chose.

[rydermike]

Audi 4000S ..... 4 wheel drive ! Great in rain and the 4 WD is also a bonus to be able to use more lines.

[JIgou]

I still think a set of patient drivers in an S2000 could cruise around just in front of the buzzing hoard of Miata's then lay the wood to them whenever they chose.

That works with another Hondacura product in ITR, too. 2 hours on a load of fuel, don't have to change brake pads, double-stint the front tires.....it's not a bad way to go.

[spawpoet]

I agree with Greg too - now that he clarified what he considered to be the ITA spec. My car uses 2 more gallons per 20 minute session than an SSM-spec 1.6L Miata...

I still think a set of patient drivers in an S2000 could cruise around just in front of the buzzing hoard of Miata's then lay the wood to them whenever they chose.

Why not run the newer ITS Miata, and have the best of both worlds. ITS level speed, with Miata reliability and light weight should be strong in the 12 hour races. Hell the ISC ITS Miata (ex-Van Steenburg I think) routinely runs right with and often in front of all the ITR cars down here.

[Knestis]

Why not run the newer ITS Miata, and have the best of both worlds. ITS level speed, with Miata reliability and light weight should be strong in the 12 hour races. Hell the ISC ITS Miata (ex-Van Steenburg I think) routinely runs right with and often in front of all the ITR cars down here.

You have something there. NO question.

We are taking a different approach this year, a high grip, but lowish hp car that we hope can run 2 hours. We'll see how it pans out. ...

DO TELL! Inquiring minds want to know. I can spill the beans that, as of yesterday, Pablo is not going to be at the 13 hours, but I will - in a Miata.

(Cue gloomy end-of-world theme music)

I had to explain to my wife the difference between an "ITA" Miata and a "spec" Miata before she'd sign off as Minister of Finance.

K

[ulfelder]

I still think a set of patient drivers in an S2000 could cruise around just in front of the buzzing hoard of Miata's then lay the wood to them whenever they chose.

I know what you're angling for, partner. Keep dreamin'.