LRP lap times old vs. new

[schris892]

I believe this is my first post, however I have watched scca club racing for years. Alot of cars are too fast. It makes no sense why you have to cheat and run alone. Andy was always a mid pack racer in its, however in ita he beats the its cars with his stock miata. Lots of other cars are extremely to fast as well, all you have to do is watch one event and pick them out. What is the fun if no one is around to race with. If you are out front winning your car should be built to the wall with every part available, not 60 pounds over and -15 hp.

Kurt

[JLawton]

Oh...........my.............god!!!

[7racing]

I have no dog in this fight and not to defend nor attack anyone.....

My Nissan 240sx qualified on the pole for an ITS/ITA NARRC race on a drying track at LRP a couple years ago. This was against Maynard and a few of the other shoes in ITS. Sometimes, it comes down to driver vs. driver. (Most of the fast ITS cars beat me into turn 1 at the start, BTW....I do have some cool pictures of that!) It sounds like "the fast guys" weren't at LRP for Andy's big adventure, so this one particular race might not be the one to question him on (I mean, there are so many others.....)

I now return you to such fun activities as "Miata Bashing" and "What would TheGA do?".

[schris892]

I am not miata bashing. Many other cars in the series are much faster then the other cars in that same class. The ITA miata is one example. It may be unfair advantages in classification or the driver may be better. Either way that car is fast and I was voicing my opinion. Its the same as Dan Jone's car. He fires up the car and just by listening it does not sound legal. If he believes it is, while that is purely fiction on his part. He is offline and sliding around as the car pulls ten cars down the straight away.

Kurt

[JeffYoung]

Kurt, don't know you, but probably not a good idea to come on here and in your first couple of posts start accusing folks of illegality.

I've raced with ITA and ITS Miatas. I've seen ITA Miatas in the SEDiv win "overall" against good S cars at certain tracks, and I've seen them get beat pretty handily at others. I certainly don't see an overdog like with the E36 325. I see a car that when prepped to the max and driven to the max wins. Just like Integras and NX2000s and CRXes and 240sxes.

If the Miata is at process weight, then that's really end of story.

[dominojd]

If the Miata is at process weight, then that's really end of story.

And that is the big debate.

[JeffYoung]

Is the whole issue on process weight the 128 v. 133 hp difference?

If the cars on the same line came with a "highest" hp of 133 hp, I have to agree, that should be the number used in the process. Using the RX8 as an example, we've decided for better or for worse to live and die by stock hp ratings.

5 hp gives what, like 70 lbs in ITA?

[JeffYoung]

Actually, he flat out accused Dan Jones of being blatantly illegal. See below.

I'm all for using the process, and think it should be used here. But I'll tell ya, if you think 70 lbs is going to be the difference between a well driven car and an "average one" (and that's coming from an average driver) dream on. I'm well aware of regional championship winning cars that were significantly over weight.

Andy didn't know the head he got from a builder down South (who I know) was illegally ported, and neither would you guys if he hadn't been straight up and told you. Just really weird to me that you are beating him up on that.

On the MAP sensor, I followed that one with great interest......aggressive interpretation of the rules, I agree. You guys all had a chance to protest it. Did you?

I find, as an outsider, a lot of this thread to be out of line and frankly sour grapes.

I am not miata bashing. Many other cars in the series are much faster then the other cars in that same class. The ITA miata is one example. It may be unfair advantages in classification or the driver may be better. Either way that car is fast and I was voicing my opinion. Its the same as Dan Jone's car. He fires up the car and just by listening it does not sound legal. If he believes it is, while that is purely fiction on his part. He is offline and sliding around as the car pulls ten cars down the straight away.

Kurt

[Doc Bro]

I see the inference Jeff. I didn't give the statement credibility, but it was written. How you interpret the note of a car -I translated as a far fetched POV... my bad.

I'll go very strongly on record as saying I have no sour grapes toward Andy, FOM, or Miata's.

What I DO have sour grapes about: (and remember Andy said he has Pete P's SM engine, +60#, -15whp....NOT a full ITA build) No personal attacks here....just quotes.

How a 8/10ths car dominates (via lap time) 9-10/10ths cars from faster classes...including ALL cars from ITA and ITS and only 1 car from ITR.

It is either the car or the driver. If Andy claims to be THAT good, then I'm totally fine with everything (ie weight, classing, everything). I don't doubt that he's a better driver than me. I've said that directly to him. As I see it; racing comes down to 2 things...the car and the driver.

If it's not the driver (which can be proven/disproven) then it must be the car...no?


Great point James. The ITA Z3 came at 138 hp. Its ITA weight is 2600....within 5 hp of the 133hp Miata (but way off in weight) and it has an inferior rear suspension design compared to the Miata's....but there is no consideration for rear design in the "formula". Apparently the formula only considers the part of the car in front of the driver's butt. But, seeing how we live and die by the 'formula' it must be right.....

R

[Z3_GoCar]

Actually, he flat out accused Dan Jones of being blatantly illegal. See below.

I'm all for using the process, and think it should be used here. But I'll tell ya, if you think 70 lbs is going to be the difference between a well driven car and an "average one" (and that's coming from an average driver) dream on. I'm well aware of regional championship winning cars that were significantly over weight.

Andy didn't know the head he got from a builder down South (who I know) was illegally ported, and neither would you guys if he hadn't been straight up and told you. Just really weird to me that you are beating him up on that.

On the MAP sensor, I followed that one with great interest......aggressive interpretation of the rules, I agree. You guys all had a chance to protest it. Did you?

I find, as an outsider, a lot of this thread to be out of line and frankly sour grapes.

Jeff,

He accused Dan's motor of "sounding illegal" If there's one thing you should know about single vanos motors is the cam timing isn't set from the factory with a key, the cam sprockets are slotted for the mounting bolts....

James

[JeffYoung]

C'mon now. Not that it matters to me, but his second post on this board he said Dan's motor was illegal. Read the post. That's bad form to me, sorry.

Jeff,

He accused Dan's motor of "sounding illegal" If there's one thing you should know about single vanos motors is the cam timing isn't set from the factory with a key, the cam sprockets are slotted for the mounting bolts....

James

[Andy Bettencourt]

I believe this is my first post, however I have watched scca club racing for years. Alot of cars are too fast. It makes no sense why you have to cheat and run alone. Andy was always a mid pack racer in its, however in ita he beats the its cars with his stock miata. Lots of other cars are extremely to fast as well, all you have to do is watch one event and pick them out. What is the fun if no one is around to race with. If you are out front winning your car should be built to the wall with every part available, not 60 pounds over and -15 hp.

Kurt

Kurt who? Help us know who you are.

I have been just reading a day and a half but this one is priceless. Define for me 'mid-pack' ITS racer. 3rd in NARRC points, 10ths off track records at NHIS, couple of pole positions, 1 win - oh ya, that was my first year in Club racing. Only ran another half a season in ITS after switching to this very Miata.

'Stock' Miata? Stock? The only think stock about it is the engine internals. All of the developed bolt-ons and programmable ECU along with 4 hours of dyno time went into the prep for that weekend alone. The suspension is 100% IT build.

Anyway, I guess it's all part of the game. Heard the same grousing about Serra's car in 2004-2005 and Greg's car in 2006 when they dominated every car in the Northeast.

Maybe I should be proud of MY accomplishents instead of getting defensive. I'll try that for a while.

[JLawton]

Kurt who? Help us know who you are.

I have been just reading a day and a half but this one is priceless. Define for me 'mid-pack' ITS racer. 3rd in NARRC points, 10ths off track records at NHIS, couple of pole positions, 1 win - oh ya, that was my first year in Club racing. Only ran another half a season in ITS after switching to this very Miata.

'Stock' Miata? Stock? The only think stock about it is the engine internals. All of the developed bolt-ons and programmable ECU along with 4 hours of dyno time went into the prep for that weekend alone. The suspension is 100% IT build.

Anyway, I guess it's all part of the game. Heard the same grousing about Serra's car in 2004-2005 and Greg's car in 2006 when they dominated every car in the Northeast.

Maybe I should be proud of MY accomplishents instead of getting defensive. I'll try that for a while.

That's what I'm talkin' about!!!!



Kurt, what Jake and Andy are trying to say is you're a zipper head and have no idea what you're talking about.




Andy, I'm surprised it took you so long to respond!!



.

[Greg Amy]

Why is Jeff Lawton reminding me of that kid that always ran around the schoolyard yelling "Did you hear what he said about your momma?!?!?"...again...?

[Doc Bro]

Serra's car in 2004-2005 and Greg's car in 2006 when they dominated every car in the Northeast.

Ahh yes but then the Teg got weight, and the NX had the Stig driving...look what the new owners' done with it....ball it up at RA.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ahh yes but then the Teg got weight, and the NX had the Stig driving...look what the new owners' done with it....ball it up at RA.

R

You mean like when Richie Hunter runs 1:02 flat on the 'old' Lime Rock last year? Ask him how 'prepped' his motor was. Just bolt-ons baby. Must be the car.

[Rabbit05]

I was at Lime Rock for the first half of the IT race ,( as a spectator only.) The wife and I were watching at the uphill and then we walked down to west bend. Andy's car looked smooooth....no corrections , no dancing around like some of the other cars. He seemed to be on the marks every lap. And In My Opinion , that's what makes a quick car at Lime Rock. In ITC we usually ran at the upper end of the field of ITA. Now go to Pocono or Watkins Glen..forget about it the ITA cars would walk away. LRP is a momentum track.<-----( IMO.)


And Nevermind the SM's are turning 1:00:00 lap times now at LRP....
So wouldn't/shouldn't that transfer into a fast IT car ?

Just my 2 cents....

-John VanDenburgh

[Ed Funk]

Oh Hell! John, I was hoping no one I knew saw my pathetic attempts at westbend!

Maybe I'll move the car to itb and paint it pink or something!

[StephF]

Oh Hell! John, I was hoping no one I knew saw my pathetic attempts at westbend!

Maybe I'll move the car to itb and paint it pink or something!

HEY! HANDS OFF THE PAINTGUN, BUCKWHEAT!!!

[benspeed]

I can't wait to see what people say about my custom cold airbox I just fabbed up. Got the metal cuts to prove it!

This thread is what makes IT racing fun - we know Andy and Greg are really transvestite lovers who date down and out machine shop workers who will fab up engine components that are then resold to the Japanese car makers who patent them and pay millions in royalty which is what really funds the evil Flatout empire and Kessler quest for road racing domination. And they share panties but only after running an enduro in very humid conditions to maximize odor.

This occurs while the BMW camps quietly bide their time by infiltrating the Japanese marque camps with spies who quitely and careful rob the intellectual property of each team that will then be brought to bear in a class action lawsuit against these carmakers for discrimiting against anglo saxon carmakers because it costs them more to cheat.

Hey Kurt - remember, Dan Jones served in Viet Nam and won't talk about his tour of duty. I think that's because he, like, killed people. But that's only a rumor I started....