ITS e36 BMW

[Andy Bettencourt]

So if you brought the multiplier from 12.9 to 12.25 you would get this:


170: 2675 --------> 2540
180: 2830 --------> 2670
190: 2990 --------> 2840
200: 3146 --------> 2990
210: 3305 --------> 3135*
220: 3460 --------> 3285*
230: 3620 --------> 3435*

* I submit there should be nothing in ITS making 210whp+

[JeffYoung]

So if you brought the multiplier from 12.9 to 12.25 you would get this:


170: 2675 --------> 2540
180: 2830 --------> 2670
190: 2990 --------> 2840
200: 3146 --------> 2990
210: 3305 --------> 3135*
220: 3460 --------> 3285*
230: 3620 --------> 3435*

* I submit there should be nothing in ITS making 210whp+

Correct, those cars should go into ITR.

That sure looks a lot more like "reality" above.

[Greg Amy]

* I submit there should be nothing in ITS making 210whp+

Correct, those cars should go into ITR.

In which case, the discussion of the E36 325 in ITS is a moot point. Kill the SIR-equipped E36 from ITS.

GA

On edit: if we'd had ITR back then, that would have never happened in the first place. This is one of the car's that begat ITR's genesis...make it go away.

[JeffYoung]

In which case, the discussion of the E36 325 in ITS is a moot point. Kill the SIR-equipped E36 from ITS.

GA

On edit: if we'd had ITR back then, that would have never happened in the first place. This is one of the car's that begat ITR's genesis...make it go away.

Agree 100%. SIR has no place in IT.

[chuck baader]

OK, when the SIR was added, the e36 was a gross overedog. Since then, several cars have been developed to equal or exceed the original e36 so must we revisit the whole group (ITS) to once again establish parity? The SIR has been around 5-6ish years and it has taken the group that long to catch up? And that means those who want to compete with the car must rely on 5-6ish year old rules to limit their performance?

And what Jake said is how I remember the discussion going forth. Most just gave up!! Other things I heard were that the SIR either killed the power below competitive levels, or people blew motors....and that is not a cheap motor to rebuild!!

Another point, the e46 323. Same motor, but with double vanos, 3000#, same brakes, better aeor....yes the car to build at this point.

[JeffYoung]

OK, when the SIR was added, the e36 was a gross overedog. Since then, several cars have been developed to equal or exceed the original e36 so must we revisit the whole group (ITS) to once again establish parity? The SIR has been around 5-6ish years and it has taken the group that long to catch up? And that means those who want to compete with the car must rely on 5-6ish year old rules to limit their performance?

And what Jake said is how I remember the discussion going forth. Most just gave up!! Other things I heard were that the SIR either killed the power below competitive levels, or people blew motors....and that is not a cheap motor to rebuild!!

Another point, the e46 323. Same motor, but with double vanos, 3000#, same brakes, better aeor....yes the car to build at this point.

What is it exactly that you are asking for?

[chuck baader]

Either revisit the great revision on the e36 or classify it the same as the e46 323, at 3000#

[Greg Amy]

Rules really haven't changed since then. But we now have better shocks (at lower prices), better cages (designs are a lot more clever), better engine management (open ECU and sensors), and - most importantly - better tires since the early aught's (anyone want to go back to RS3s? Didn't think so.) Just imagine what a fully-built and continued-to-be-developed E36 would be like today, had not everyone "gave up" (or went to ITR) because of the SIR.

As I noted above, the CRB tossed in the SIR to reign in that car, as an alternative to simply telling it to go away. Trust me, the latter was a definite consideration (that or ~500 pounds). And that got us all to talking about a class faster than ITS in order to bring in all these cars that had no other place to go. Voila: ITR.

There's a couple of seriously-developed and well-driven ITS E46 323 up here in New England, built and campaigned by one of the groups that used to campaign the E36 325is in the bad old days (Autotechnic). And they are doing quite well... - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

OK, when the SIR was added, the e36 was a gross overedog. Since then, several cars have been developed to equal or exceed the original e36 so must we revisit the whole group (ITS) to once again establish parity? The SIR has been around 5-6ish years and it has taken the group that long to catch up? And that means those who want to compete with the car must rely on 5-6ish year old rules to limit their performance?

And what Jake said is how I remember the discussion going forth. Most just gave up!! Other things I heard were that the SIR either killed the power below competitive levels, or people blew motors....and that is not a cheap motor to rebuild!!

Another point, the e46 323. Same motor, but with double vanos, 3000#, same brakes, better aeor....yes the car to build at this point.

First, you need to look at the ITR times for E36's to more accurately gauge where ITS E36 development would or could be should it kept moving like the other cars. You are comparing cars at different points in time which is not fair.

Second, the 323 has a stock HP rating of 172hp. Can't be exactly the same motor as the 189hp 325.

[Bill Miller]

So if you brought the multiplier from 12.9 to 12.25 you would get this:


170: 2675 --------> 2540
180: 2830 --------> 2670
190: 2990 --------> 2840
200: 3146 --------> 2990
210: 3305 --------> 3135*
220: 3460 --------> 3285*
230: 3620 --------> 3435*

* I submit there should be nothing in ITS making 210whp+

Yep

Correct, those cars should go into ITR.

That sure looks a lot more like "reality" above.

Double Yep

In which case, the discussion of the E36 325 in ITS is a moot point. Kill the SIR-equipped E36 from ITS.

GA

On edit: if we'd had ITR back then, that would have never happened in the first place. This is one of the car's that begat ITR's genesis...make it go away.

Exactly. The overdog status of the E36 325 in ITS was probably the single biggest impetus for the formation of ITR. And ITR has been around long enough, the dual classification of the E36 325 should be removed. If nothing else, it takes away ammunition from those that support dual-classification of more cars. I was honestly surprised that there was no sunset date on the dual classification, when it was announced.

Agree 100%. SIR has no place in IT.

I said that when the original Process was published / adopted, and it had the SIR language in it.

[Andy Bettencourt]

That sure looks a lot more like "reality" above.

Make it so number 1.