June 2011 Fastrack

[ShelbyRacer]

Then a TON of people will need (or at least feel so) to get wider rims. I'd probably run the same tire size as I do now, Hoosier 225s, but certainly would benefit from using a 7", maybe 7.5", maybe... Not saying it won't happen in the future, but right now I do not see a supply issue for ITB & ITC cars sourcing 6" wide rims.

For those of us (currently) locked into 15" wheels, there may not be a "lack" of availability, but the cost is significantly higher.

My proposed rule change (over a year ago) was simple- allow those running 15" wheels in ITB to use a 6.5" wide wheel. These are available everywhere in almost any configuration for very little money. Many take issue with the idea that those who already own things having to buy new- but what about when they can buy 3 sets of wheels in the new size for less than what it would cost me for one set of the current? Also, limiting the wider width to only 15" cuts down on the number of people affected, and also negates some of the advantage of running the smaller OD tire/wheel combo. Want, or have to have, the big wheels? Here's a tiny bit of width. Decide to run the smaller ones? Stick with 6". I left out ITC since it is a "slower" class, and also only the Beetles (old and new) are stuck with 15" (or 16).

Granted, if downsizing is allowed, that negates the cost issue for me, and I will stick with 6"...

[gran racing]

So someone else states the same theory for their 16" wheels, but in their case it really needs to be 6.75". We can't be making these types of rules otherwise it'll create quite the mess.

[shwah]

For those of us (currently) locked into 15" wheels, there may not be a "lack" of availability, but the cost is significantly higher.

My proposed rule change (over a year ago) was simple- allow those running 15" wheels in ITB to use a 6.5" wide wheel. These are available everywhere in almost any configuration for very little money.

Compomotive sells 15x6 and 16x6 wheels in 4 and 5 lug patterns with a wide range of offsets, for a much lower price than the typical Keizer, BBS, etc. custom 3 piece wheels. You specify bolt pattern and offset when ordering. Their US distributor is Fifteen52 tuning.

The one group I do have some sympathy for is the New Beetle or anyone else with the stock wheel being 6.5 wide. I could see letting them run stock wheels (not stock size, stock wheels) or any wheel that meets the class rules...

[Chip42]

The one group I do have some sympathy for is the New Beetle or anyone else with the stock wheel being 6.5 wide. I could see letting them run stock wheels (not stock size, stock wheels) or any wheel that meets the class rules...

10000% agreement. even with the rule change proposed, anyone should be allowed to run stock parts (any correct stock parts) even if outside of the normal rules. I think only the wheels fall outside of that concept.

[JeffYoung]

I agree. I think we missed the boat on that.

[tderonne]

10000% agreement. Even with the rule change proposed, anyone should be allowed to run stock parts (any correct stock parts) even if outside of the normal rules. I think only the wheels fall outside of that concept.

100% agreement here (can't agree more than 100% right?).

Stock wheel OR blah x blah x whatever.

Allowance to run the stock wheel would take care of the availability argument.

You ITB Mustang guys with piles of stock 15x7 phonedials need to speak up!

[Knestis]

I agree. I think we missed the boat on that.

Ditto. I clearly remember at least one of those conversations. We should never PROHIBIT someone from using a stock part. All rules *must* be in terms of "allowances" - what folks can do - consistent with IIDSYCYC.

K

[tom91ita]

100% agreement here (can't agree more than 100% right?).

Stock wheel OR blah x blah x whatever.

Allowance to run the stock wheel would take care of the availability argument.

You ITB Mustang guys with piles of stock 15x7 phonedials need to speak up!

can we have 1000% agreement if we agreed 10 times?

i like the way you put it Stock Wheel or .....

grassroots, entry level is what IT is about and i ran my OEM for a while in the beginning. but then 13x6 was a step up from the 13x5's that were on it...

stock size should always be an option.

[dickita15]

are you sure you can define what a stock wheel is?

[Chip42]

just as well as I can define maximum valve seat pressure. either there's a clear callout in manufacturer specs or is subjective and the teritory of tribal knowledge.

not ideal but most of the cars where stock size is outside of the bounds of the classification are pretty modern and well known (now). maybe we can have part numbers added to the specline? ::ducks::

[JoshS]

stock size should always be an option.

Are you sure that stock size (really, any stock part) isn't already an option? 9.1.3.D says that the changes listed in that section are the only authorized ones. Isn't "no change" implicitly authorized?

Yes, I know this is a gray area. The wording in the book authorizes things, but then disallows some things. It's not the right way to do it.

[Eagle7]

100% agreement here (can't agree more than 100% right?).

Stock wheel OR blah x blah x whatever.

Allowance to run the stock wheel would take care of the availability argument.

You ITB Mustang guys with piles of stock 15x7 phonedials need to speak up!

So that would make stock 15x7 wheels legal for ITB? Is that what everyone's 10000000% agreeing with?

[quadzjr]

4 cyl mustangs came with 15X7 wheels? I thought 4 cyl mustangs got 14" wheels. I know V8's had 15" wheels. And everyone and their brother (including dealers) swapped over GT wheels on their lesser stnags to make them look the part.

[Knestis]

are you sure you can define what a stock wheel is?

More sure than being able to define what a stock crankshaft is, anywho.

K

[Greg Amy]

More sure than being able to define what a stock crankshaft is, anywho.

My first thought upon reading Dick's post was "as much as we can for Showroom Stock". But then I think I got the crux of Dick's post, in that we can have cars in the class that are almost a half-century old...but I guess so are the crankshafts....

[Gary L]

My first thought upon reading Dick's post was "as much as we can for Showroom Stock". But then I think I got the crux of Dick's post, in that we can have cars in the class that are almost a half-century old...but I guess so are the crankshafts....

WRT to stock wheels though, at least the basic dimensions should be in the half-century old shop manuals, right? I know they're in mine, but I don't think I wanna go there... 15 x 4.5... yippee!!!

[gran racing]

I keep thinking about Kirk's usual "unintended consequences". Marty already pointed one example out but as more ITB & ITC cars get classed, I wonder how this will impact things? Could there be 15 x 8 rims, and there's a sport option which makes them nice and light weight?

At the same time I do agree that OEM makes is a lot easier for the noob trying to build their first car.

I wonder if some type of provision should be available to address those issues if they do arise.

[CRallo]

At that point it would fall under the "warts and all" clause... def a good point tho!

[tom91ita]

Are you sure that stock size (really, any stock part) isn't already an option? 9.1.3.D says that the changes listed in that section are the only authorized ones. Isn't "no change" implicitly authorized?

Yes, I know this is a gray area. The wording in the book authorizes things, but then disallows some things. It's not the right way to do it.

Josh,

very interesting comment!

so one could take the modification section and basically argue that the wheel section is the maximum modification allowed....

B. INTENT

It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those useful and

necessary to construct a safe race car.

6. Maximum allowable rim widths: ITR - 8.5 inches, classes
ITS and ITA ‑ seven (7) inches; classes ITB and ITC ‑ six

(6) inches.

so if i had an OEM wheel that was 6.5" in ITB and was protested, my appeal could be something like this:

the maximum allowable rim width is listed as the maximum allowable modification. my rims are OEM and therefore no modification was completed. i am not restricted from running my car with its stock equipment unless that equipment must be specifically removed, e.g., driver's seat upgrades.....

very new perspective that i had not considered!

[Flyinglizard]

I dont see how IT can not allow the OE part. If it was legal for SS stock, it should also be legal for the IT classes. The shop manual list the wheels. Dealer installed is not listed and should not be legal. IMHO.
If it came on the car, it should be legal, IMHO. MM