Plain Old Gas ( POG )

[Z3_GoCar]

Looks like you don't include 100LL Av gas from the local FBO pump. Is that an overcite, or on purpose?

James

[77ITA]

Looks like you don't include 100LL Av gas from the local FBO pump. Is that an overcite, or on purpose?

James

100LL and any other aviation fuel is intentionally excluded for a number of reasons.

[Greg Amy]

100LL and any other aviation fuel is intentionally excluded for a number of reasons.

Ugh. Guess what? It's "Plain Ole [Leaded high octane] Gas"...I use it in multiple vehicles, one of them being my airplane...

I was "on board" up to this point...if you guys want some details on this POG, I can provide it...remember: the whole world ain't Spec Miata, and if you want the world's cooperation... - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

We are bringing 15 cars to the first race in a week. 14 of them run regular-unleaded pump gas. I get a lot of crap for being the only guy who needs super-unleaded!

[77ITA]

Greg,

I wouldn't personally consider 100LL or any other aviation fuel to be within the concept of POG, but let's talk about that! After all, I want this to be a community thing.

So, why do you feel that avgas could be considered POG? Do you believe it's readily available and easily accessible to all racers?

In St. Louis, I only know of one retail pump to buy avgas (I'm sure there could be more), but it's $7/gallon and not intended or legal to be pumped into a car.

[Greg Amy]

Do you believe it's readily available and easily accessible to all racers?

Depends, but no, not necessarily. But, really, is leaded high octane racing fuel "easily accessible to all racers" at "all" race tracks...?

100LL is available depending on your local small airport's standards/concerns; most will sell it to you, but some airport operators get nervous with someone that walks up with cans in hand (remember, the 9/11 asswipes learned to fly at small airports, so "we" are always on guard). Legally - at least Federally - there's no restrictions, as long as it's not used on the highway, for the most part sales are up to your local FBO's discretion.

I guess it comes down to what the priorities of the group are. If the group wants the ability for anyone, anywhere to walk up and buy the fuel, then I agree that 100LL may be disqualified (but then again, so may be leaded racing fuel at some/many tracks). But, if the priority is to discourage someone from using these weird-ass toluene, propolene, assolene, poopoleen brews, then 100LL is nowhere near that and is more kindred spirit with Sunoco 100GT...

Also, to be considered when asking other race classifications to join in, many of us are allowed engine modifications far and above the stock engine "ideal" of Spec Miata, and thus need something more than 93 octane...

I'll read through the web site docs tomorrow, and become a bit more informed of the expectations/standards...

GA

[MMiskoe]

3. Must meet all existing SCCA fuel regulations for the class.
4. Must not contain additives.

How do you deal with alcohol enriched fuels that you get at the pump? They don't pass SCCA standards. Just curious

I think what you're up to is good, but its pretty hard to enforce. Some of the really exotic stuff will pass the current testing while some POG's will not.

Short of a 'pump around' (everyone pumps out half their tank and hands it to the next guy who dumps it in his tank) I'm not sure how you do address it.

[shwah]

Hence the gentleman's agreement aspect.

I run 100 unleaded for just a little more comfort that I won't blow things up if something becomes not right in the fueling or igntion. Would that qualify as POG? I buy it at the local gas station pump.

[Parrish57]

Greg,

I wouldn't personally consider 100LL or any other aviation fuel to be within the concept of POG, but let's talk about that! After all, I want this to be a community thing.

So, why do you feel that avgas could be considered POG? Do you believe it's readily available and easily accessible to all racers?

In St. Louis, I only know of one retail pump to buy avgas (I'm sure there could be more), but it's $7/gallon and not intended or legal to be pumped into a car.

Jeff ... First and foremost I'd like to say thank you for the effort and intent of POG. I've known for a very long time that my fellow competitors are taking more advantage of the fuel rules than I am but that thread on SM dot com was an eye opener. That being said, I hope you don't get upset if I offer some divergent opinions.

First, I'd like to address the 100LL Avgas issue. I'm not comfortable using 93 octane in my fully (?) ITS prepared motor. I know of one 240Z pilot that was insistant on using 93 but had to repair too many detonated motors. I've never ran anything but 100LL or 100 unleaded race fuel. I've used both on the dyno and there is only one difference: PRICE! I don't change ANYTHING on my car to go between the two fuels. At my local airport the price today is $4.84/gal. That's right in line with the national average. If someone is trying to charge you $7 per gal you are getting severly ripped! If you would like to know what you should be paying in your part of the country for avgas go to http://www.100ll.com/ By contrast, I paid $7.49 per gallon last week at Carolina Motorsports Park for Sonoco 100 Unleaded. I'm all for keeping the super exotics out of IT racing, but if you are suggesting that I should volunteer to pay an extra $2.65 per gal to get essentially the same fuel then I'll have to pass on POG. As for your statment that Avgas is "not intended or legal to be pumped into a car", the only part that is accurate is that it is not legal to pump avgas directly into a STREET car as there is no road tax applied to aviation fuel. If you show up at the airport with your gas cans and assure the FBO that you are not using this fuel on pubic roads you should not have a problem. If they still refuse to sell it to you they are being overprotective and you shouldn't penalize me for that.

The second statment that I have to reiterate is that I want no part of using peer pressure to insinuate that the guys I'm chasing are doing anything wrong by using the $36 per gal fuels. IT is not a spec class. It has taken me a very long time to legally get to the pointy end of the grid. I'm sure that the guys and gals that are chasing me now know that I am outspending them. (I hope and pray that they don't assume that I'm cheating to get there). Meanwhile the cars that I'm chasing are outspending me 3 to 1. Folks, that's racing. It's true from the smallest little go kart track all the way to F1. There will always be the haves and the have nots.

In a Utopian IT world we would all come to a gentlemens agreement to run the same fuel, tires, shocks, motors, widgets, and driver ability. If you can get the IT community to agree to spec anything I'm with you. Until then I'll just keep doing what I'm doing!