drivers working races

[Jeremy Billiel]

So the Atlanta division pays for their licensed F&C come to the track. What about the other volunteer positions?

What we as drivers are forgetting, that many times flaggers do not have the means, ability or desire to literally race, but they do enjoy being part of the "club" and enjoy the social side of the event.

Jerry - What if we put a mandatory $50 increase in the entry fee for the workers fund, that ultimately can help to pay for at least gas for the flaggers?

In New England we already do "pay" workers who do a good job by giving them TIPS, which is good for merchandise, gas cards, hotel room stays, etc... We can't forget that either.

[Butch Kummer]

So the Atlanta division pays for their licensed F&C come to the track. What about the other volunteer positions?

I had to actually do some work this morning but didn't want this to get lost in the ensuing discussion(s):

All volunteer specialties are eligible for our Worker Expense Reimbursement Program. Contracted positions (wrecker and ambulance people, track security, etc.) are not eligible. Since implementing the program we've had MUCH better success staffing events, but now the challenge is keeping our events profitable without raising entry fees to unreasonable levels.

It's always about trying to maintain a balance...

[gran racing]

myself and others were met with mucho resistance from the "old world" crowd that wouldn't give up dates and couldn't see beyond their own noses.

I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.

[tnord]

I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.

I know Mike pretty well, and he's a guy that's not part of the problem.

Regions, in my experience, are absolutely terrible at working together to acheive a common goal. ie - CenDiv/GLDiv split, how has that worked out for you guys?

i don't mean to be insulting, but part of the problem is the qualifications of the people you have volunteering for these administrative/leadership roles. i don't mean to group EVERYONE together in this, as it seems Butch has done a good job, and we have a couple in our area (Scott Peterson, Bill Johnson, Jim Wheeler) who are high caliber as well, but.....

many of the people that really run the regions seem to have no actual real world experience that would give them the perspective and knowledge needed to make the directional and strategic type decisions that have far reaching implications beyond their respective regions. i've seen quality people TRY to get their nose in there and make a difference, but they're met with such resistance by the old guard that it becomes a undertaking that's just not worth the individual's time.....after all, this is supposed to be their fun/relaxing hobby......so they walk.

go ahead, flame away.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I heard a quote this weekend at the NER Annual Meeting that stuck with me. It was over some beers, while eating dinner and it was "damn, we are dealing with a 700k a year revenue generating business. Do you know how hard it is to make a 700k a year business?"

[gran racing]

I know Mike pretty well, and he's a guy that's not part of the problem.

I absolutely agree. He suggested a valid solution a while back of when the demand wasn't there.

[Andy Bettencourt]

How about this:

Can Regions take a look at each specialty and the available quantity of core/fully trained workers and redesign the 'allocation' of the assets?

Meaning this: If you spread out the skilled volunteers, you might be able to make room for 'event by event temporary' volunteers that can work in short bursts with little training.

This could create a pool of workers that could move into the skilled qualification while equally importantly allowing for an influx of 'weekly' workers. I am sure it would require a real scrub-down of available skillsets and a look at how to allocate resources in a more strategic manner...

[ner88]

Dave
Where do you think NASA would get their volunteers?

The majority of volunteers are not racecar driver want a bees.
There are a limited number of workers, most don't do it for the gifts or money, they have a passion for the sport just like you and me.
I find in funny that many use the excuse that they are too busy, sorry bad excuse.
Most weekends I have three cars on the track and I still found time to be a racechair, pacecar driver, gas pump jockey and school instructor, just to name a few.
At the enduro at NHMS I drove the first half of the race, got out and manned the pacecar for the rest of the race.
I do this because I want to race and if someone dosen't step up there will be no racing.
Have you ever notice how many of the same workers you see at NHMS, LRP, NJMP or the Glen? When will they reach burnout?
We need new blood, now!
NER has lost our chief of timing and scoring, after three years of looking for a replacement, we have no one! Where do we find someone? Take it from someone who knows, they are not on Craigs list!
I know, it's not your problem, well, guess what, it is.

Jerry

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jerry,

As someone who has volunteered on many levels, I want to ask that you take a step back. In your short tenure in your position you have taken on a real 'us against them' attitude that can foster inside the local committees when two sides of an issue aren't well represented.

How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.

[mustanghammer]

When I am at the track, I want to be there as a racer. It is my mini-vacatiion from life and that is what I want and need. I dreamed about doing this for a long time before I could afford to actually do it. I would hope that those involved in putting on the race have the same desire that I do and that they are enjoying themselves too.

That said I haven't forgotten that this is a volunteer organization so I serve on my local BOD. So, while I am not standing on a corner station in 100+ degree weather I am doing my part to see that my club make good financial decisions and promotes Solo and Club Racing programs that work for the members we serve.

For me the SCCA represents an opportunity to be involved in something that is bigger than yourself. There are many ways to serve and make it better. It could be on a corner station or in an administrative function. Both are important.

Great conversation!

[raffaelli]

NER has lost our chief of timing and scoring, after three years of looking for a replacement, we have no one!
Jerry

Linda?

[jumbojimbo]

I've got an odd perspective since I grew up with my Dad working at Riverside, so I'm like a legacy worker. Worker parties at the Shakey's on Iowa. Nothing funnier than some drunk flagger in a white cowboy hat from SFR blowing his whistle and yelling "Everybody out of the pool."

Then I ran road rallies for years where the group was small and we traded off working thru the year. I moved to Solo and Rallycross where everyone works. Now I'm racing and the split between workers and drivers reminds me of a junior high dance. Ewww, they have cooties. I just wasn't prepared for such an us and them feeling at my first race. Hey, I'm one of you, really.

I agree that the race schedule doesn't help. Take a look at the NASA Great Lakes schedule, they run once a month pretty much the 2nd weekend of the month. Compare that to SCCA schedule. We've got a bunch of races jammed up a the beginning of the year and again at the end of the year. Nothing in the summer.

So as a driver who might want to work I'm having trouble making it work. I'd have to be gone two weekends in a row if I wanted to run one weekend and work another. That's simply not going to happen. Like someone else said, if I am going to take that kind of heat at home I'm damn well going to be driving.

Crap, that gives me an idea, I should work the NASA races in June, July and Aug when SCCA doesn't have jack on the schedule.

One problem with volunteering on a weekend when I race is that while I do tend to have a lot of down time I can't be sure. If I commit to work and the car breaks, what happens then? I realize that any time people can spare to work helps but is it really any help if you can't be sure they will show up? I suppose if 10 people volunteered and 6 showed up it all works out, but what if only 2 show up? In the long run is it worth the hassle for a couple of workers?

I take my hat off to anyone who has the energy to be Superman on a race weekend. But that's not me. It takes me most of a week to recover from a race weekend as it is. You can insult me if it makes you feel better but it's not going to change my situation.

Long story short, we're barking up the wrong tree if we think drivers are going to provide a big pool of workers. If they had extra time or money they'd spend on the race car. Let's face it, most of us are idiots who would spend every second and dime on the car if we didn't have someone with self control stopping us.

One idea might be to contact drivers whose license is expiring and see if they want to stay involved. Those are people who want to be involved but maybe just don't quite have the time or money to dump into a car.

[dickita15]

I am posting this for Leigh McBride

Andy Bettencourt says:
How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.

What Andy says! I've been reading this thread with interest. I am one of the Co-Chiefs of Flagging and Communications for NER. I presented some information at the NER annual meeting last weekend on our flagger numbers (recruitment and retention). The numbers and trends are pretty dismal, but they are what they are, and we need to find productive solutions. This is not a problem specific to NER but rather exists through SCCA. No region seems to have been able to come up with a complete "fix". But I'd like to share my take on the situation with you. After all, you (drivers) are the reason we're around!

We realize that many factors influence whether an individual will choose to come flagging on any given day or weekend. People may want to spend time with their families, have responsibilities at home or work, have other interests, or not be able to afford to make the trip. These are all perfectly valid reasons. Most of these variables are out of the Flag Chief's hands. The one thing we can control is whether they have a good enough time flagging so that if they have the opportunity to flag, they will want to flag. I personally do not suggest or support that drivers augment our flagging pool on weekends they are racing. Most drivers don't want to be flaggers (even on their non-racing weekends) and that is fine, I have no problem with that. We all have our own interests. But­-and this is a big but­-I know there is a pool of drivers out there, however small, who want to and can (and some do) flag on some of their non-racing weekends, as they are able. We have about 5 drivers who put on their flagging hats when they aren't racing and they are valued members of our community.

Recruiting new flaggers is a difficult task. Our best recruitment tool continues to be the experienced flagger who brings a friend, family member, neighbor or co-worker along. What I am proposing is that drivers join us in recruiting new flaggers as they are able. I'm not talking about crew or spouses coming out to work a session or two (that's not fair to the drivers and doesn't really help the flaggers out much). I'm talking about having drivers bring, the way so many of us flaggers have, a friend, neighbor or co-worker to the track specifically to flag (or bring themselves on a non-racing weekend). A couple of drivers have already done this for us, but we need more. If only 2% of the 700 drivers in NER brought one new person to the track just to flag, we would consider that a huge success. That would give us 14 new flaggers in one season, which is a lot. Last year we had 19 new flaggers all season, 14 more would almost double that. It would then be our responsibility, as flaggers, to do what we can to make them want to come back again and again.

Leigh



Leigh McBride
Co-Chief, Flagging & Communications
New England Region
[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

Leigh (via Dick?) - Good ideas! Which makes me think of yet another variation of that.

Several of "us drivers" noted above that we don't want to flag on our 'off' weekends because of time and money. It's reasonable to expect that those limitations also apply to volunteers as well. So there's something that "us drivers" can do to at least address the latter.

Every time I tow to the track - every time - I have at least one empty seat in my Excursion. Sometimes three or four. Further, I always cover the accommodations for my friends/crew and I usually have at least a floor in my hotel room for a bedroll, if not an opportunity of an empty bed in a double room. And, I bet I'm not alone. There is absolutely no reason why that space - which costs nothing extra - shouldn't be made available to volunteer F&C folks, so that at least they don't have to drive themselves and pay for their own fuel and hotels.

So, one opportunity for us to help is to devise some kind of "ride/hotel share" system, where competitors can make those spaces available for our volunteers. I don't have any concrete suggestions for this - the idea just popped up after reading Leigh's note - but if we can address the costs factor for our volunteers I'd suggest the time factor may work itself out...

GA

[JLawton]

I am posting this for Leigh McBride

Andy Bettencourt says:
How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.

What Andy says! I've been reading this thread with interest. I am one of the Co-Chiefs of Flagging and Communications for NER. I presented some information at the NER annual meeting last weekend on our flagger numbers (recruitment and retention). The numbers and trends are pretty dismal, but they are what they are, and we need to find productive solutions. This is not a problem specific to NER but rather exists through SCCA. No region seems to have been able to come up with a complete "fix". But I'd like to share my take on the situation with you. After all, you (drivers) are the reason we're around!

We realize that many factors influence whether an individual will choose to come flagging on any given day or weekend. People may want to spend time with their families, have responsibilities at home or work, have other interests, or not be able to afford to make the trip. These are all perfectly valid reasons. Most of these variables are out of the Flag Chief's hands. The one thing we can control is whether they have a good enough time flagging so that if they have the opportunity to flag, they will want to flag. I personally do not suggest or support that drivers augment our flagging pool on weekends they are racing. Most drivers don't want to be flaggers (even on their non-racing weekends) and that is fine, I have no problem with that. We all have our own interests. But­-and this is a big but­-I know there is a pool of drivers out there, however small, who want to and can (and some do) flag on some of their non-racing weekends, as they are able. We have about 5 drivers who put on their flagging hats when they aren't racing and they are valued members of our community.

Recruiting new flaggers is a difficult task. Our best recruitment tool continues to be the experienced flagger who brings a friend, family member, neighbor or co-worker along. What I am proposing is that drivers join us in recruiting new flaggers as they are able. I'm not talking about crew or spouses coming out to work a session or two (that's not fair to the drivers and doesn't really help the flaggers out much). I'm talking about having drivers bring, the way so many of us flaggers have, a friend, neighbor or co-worker to the track specifically to flag (or bring themselves on a non-racing weekend). A couple of drivers have already done this for us, but we need more. If only 2% of the 700 drivers in NER brought one new person to the track just to flag, we would consider that a huge success. That would give us 14 new flaggers in one season, which is a lot. Last year we had 19 new flaggers all season, 14 more would almost double that. It would then be our responsibility, as flaggers, to do what we can to make them want to come back again and again.

Leigh



Leigh McBride
Co-Chief, Flagging & Communications
New England Region
[email protected]

Well said Leigh.

I don't think getting drivers to work on their race weekends is answer. Look what kind of car I drive. I spend the whole friggen weekend working on the damn thing!! :eek: We don't ALL drive Miatas.......