Self-policing +

[Chip42]

there's plenty of Miata in that list, too.

[Ron Earp]

there's plenty of Miata in that list, too.

And people refer to the SCCA as the Mazda Car Club. Boy they sure are wrong.

[Chip42]

Ron, the point of my posting the entries is to highlight the fields we get in CFR as the incentive to not travel. Parricularly in B, where I play, the depth is good. But there are strong cars and good numbers in all IT classes here (not C). Yeah, I'm mid pack, but up in the SARRC I'm dead last of 2 maybe 3 cars. The only reason I travel north is to work and occasionally drive other tracks, when my cars not getting repaired that is.

[D. Ellis-Brown]

Steve, No we are not going to the TT, mainly family, #1.... Yes we can talk, willing to listen, I really don't see a dark cloud over CFR or Florida. Issues with legality are no more severe here than any racing region with the huge fields of cars that we have. Are there some issues that need to be worked, Yes, I am not naïve, but is this something that is unique to our regions? I am willing to hear what you are so concerned about. And maybe collectively, with all concerned, decide if something can should be done. As a long time IT competitor, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me. Both Louis Boustani and David Boles will be at the TT, They will know how to get in touch me directly.

Respectfully, David Ellis-Brown

[quadzjr]

Steve, No we are not going to the TT, mainly family, #1.... Yes we can talk, willing to listen, I really don't see a dark cloud over CFR or Florida. Issues with legality are no more severe here than any racing region with the huge fields of cars that we have. Are there some issues that need to be worked, Yes, I am not naïve, but is this something that is unique to our regions? I am willing to hear what you are so concerned about. And maybe collectively, with all concerned, decide if something can should be done. As a long time IT competitor, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me. Both Louis Boustani and David Boles will be at the TT, They will know how to get in touch me directly.

Respectfully, David Ellis-Brown

I think together we can come up with something. I do not want to accuse or upset anyone. Obviously.. if people are cheating (performance enhancements not piddly stuff) they are going to be resistant. We are trying to reach out to all the CFR folks i. I am excited to see what what boustani in the ex Ronie car will do. The car was fast before and it will be interesting to see how quickly he adapts to the new car.

Unfortunately.. CFR does have a dark cloud outside CFR.. well the term is typically "FL guys". So take that for what it is I guess. Should we care what others regions think about us? That is debatable. Though from talking to a lot of IT drivers they think they have to cheat to win. Which is complete bogus as if you look at the top cars in CFR they are legal, and from time to time they have gone to the ARRC and passed their scrutiny (which is the only tear down in the SE as far as I am aware.)

Sometimes it is new drivers you see doing the bad stuff.. So my thinking is if we get our group get involved we can nip that thinking in the bud and put us behind us and become a more attractive place to play.

Family #1, understandable. We are all doing this for wood plaques, beer mugs, and friends

[quadzjr]

Just to respond for closure. I spoke to a good bit of the ITB field at Sebring Turkey trots.. I learned basically that though my intentions were good and a lot supported it that it is way more complicated and would be extremely hard to police. Especially for marques that are not well known or older cars.

the next race at Sebring I will see if there is something we can do. I have talked to some and they loved the idea.. I talked to business owners that need to make sure that they do the right thing.. I talked to people that were generally just happy with the way things are, and I talked to people that believes that there is very little cheating.. okay.. so now what?

I do know that the CFR/FL region is not alone in this issue.. so what is the point of battling it? I have stopped and asked that question to myself as I tear another builders motor down tonight. so far every motor I have torn down whether it came from up north or down here in the south has been illegal in one way or another. This last motor was laughable.. I was actually looking for legal bits at the end.. This IT motor had an illegal crank, rods, pistons, CR, rings, head (porting), cams, valves, cam gears, oil pump, etc..

This motor actually did race, once.. it also blew up that race.. so no harm no foul I guess, but still.. It makes me question.. what is the point.

It just sickens me.

I will continue to see if there is something that can happen. It is NOT just a CFR/FL thing.. as I mentioned before. I am going to the machine shop tomorrow with 3 disassembled engines.. and hopefully I can get 1 good one out of the lot and not spend a metric shit ton in the process. Hopefully it will be completed before the next race at Sebring.

[RSTPerformance]

Just to respond for closure. I spoke to a good bit of the ITB field at Sebring Turkey trots.. I learned basically that though my intentions were good and a lot supported it that it is way more complicated and would be extremely hard to police. Especially for marques that are not well known or older cars.

the next race at Sebring I will see if there is something we can do. I have talked to some and they loved the idea.. I talked to business owners that need to make sure that they do the right thing.. I talked to people that were generally just happy with the way things are, and I talked to people that believes that there is very little cheating.. okay.. so now what?

I do know that the CFR/FL region is not alone in this issue.. so what is the point of battling it? I have stopped and asked that question to myself as I tear another builders motor down tonight. so far every motor I have torn down whether it came from up north or down here in the south has been illegal in one way or another. This last motor was laughable.. I was actually looking for legal bits at the end.. This IT motor had an illegal crank, rods, pistons, CR, rings, head (porting), cams, valves, cam gears, oil pump, etc..

This motor actually did race, once.. it also blew up that race.. so no harm no foul I guess, but still.. It makes me question.. what is the point.

It just sickens me.

I will continue to see if there is something that can happen. It is NOT just a CFR/FL thing.. as I mentioned before. I am going to the machine shop tomorrow with 3 disassembled engines.. and hopefully I can get 1 good one out of the lot and not spend a metric shit ton in the process. Hopefully it will be completed before the next race at Sebring.

Start by telling us where these motors came from... Car, Driver, Team, motor builder, etc. I think most of the bigger teams winning up here in the northeast know that a lot is on the line if something they built came back illegal. It's not the best option but it is a start.

Also get to know your tech and stewards well... Maybe even work in tech to build a relationship and learn what tests/items could be tested. Then work with them to make it happen.

Good luck;

Raymond "learned a long time ago to try not and complain at the local level, the races are put on by your friends for your friends, help them and you can help make things happen... Mostly because they can't do everything and need some help" Blethen

[gran racing]

That is disappointing Steve. But at least you're doing what you can to help resolve the situation. I've sometimes thought that a wall of shame should be created whether it be on the regional or national level. Basically it would be a public database listing illegal items found, the car owner, he builder, and any other information both parties wanted noted. Not just a one off in FasTrack, but a record kept for a period of time (7 years?). Maybe even list the costs that were associated. So X car was found to have an illegal crank. That cost that owner $800 in protest fees and 4 races to be missed.

I've had this discussion with my engine builder. He told me that there are plenty of illegal motors out there, but that doesn't make them better or faster. In many instances an illegal motor, not really well built the not tuned by an expert will be slower than a very well built and tuned engine.

In the end of the day, people need to be able to go home from a weekend of racing with their $5 trophy and actually be proud of their accomplishments. This can also be said regardless of where they finish in the field.

How to help this on a larger scale? John N. worked on a protest guide which would be great if it were expanded. If people better understand the process of protesting, have a guide that will assist them in making it less painful for all parties involved and have an idea of costs associated ahead of time, it makes it more likely to happen. Then that makes building illegal motors less tempting.

I've been racing for a while now and the protest process is intimidating to me. If I wanted to check a few items on someone's motor, I have absolutely no clue what the approximate costs would be. I know in some cases it varies greatly such as a BMW 2002 cam, but overall there are many cars that is not the norm.

What I think would be really cool is to have a guide like this created, posted on websites, and then have it handed out with the Sups at some races. Bet it would get more people talking and thinking twice.