adding heat protection?

[Greg Amy]

OK, then I submit the definitions that clearly tell us that ANYTHING not attached (ASSEMBLY) to the 'exhaust system' is not part of said exhaust system.

There you go again, pulling that word out of your...anterior.

POOMA, babe. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

There you go again, pulling that word out of your...anterior.

POOMA, babe. - GA

You aren't looking far enough into the words, you are getting hung up on that singular word.

The exhaust system is made up of an 'assembly' of components with an identifiable primary function per the GCR. That primary function is defined as

A passive system, whose components serve to convey the exhaust of an engine past the driver and away from the car

A heat shield attached to the chassis simply does not do that. I submit it's primary function is to shield the chassis (or another specific component) from any heat that the 'exhaust system' produces while it is doing its job.

I also submit we are at the agree to disagree point.

[Greg Amy]

You aren't looking far enough into the words, you are getting hung up on that singular word.

Now THAT is funny, coming from you on this subject. Seriously. Though now it seems you're stuck on a second word: "assembly".

OK, so let's go there.

Show me where in the GCR - or even within common English verbiage - where something is only an "assembly" if the components of that assembly are "attached". 'Cause all I have to do is provide one example where it's not to shoot that one down.

GA, about to leave work to join the assembly at the town hall tonight for the referendum discussion...


On edit: keep in mind that if the only function of the exhaust "assembly/system" is to convey the air, then that makes things like exhaust hangers part of the "exhaust hanger assembly" and thus not open within the "exhaust system" regulation.

You might also want to read through the regs and see what other "systems" or "assemblies" your interpretation would affect.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Now THAT is funny, coming from you on this subject. Seriously. Though now it seems you're stuck on a second word: "assembly".

OK, so let's go there.

Show me where in the GCR - or even within common English verbiage - where something is only an "assembly" if the components of that assembly are "attached". 'Cause all I have to do is provide one example where it's not to shoot that one down.

GA, about to leave work to join the assembly at the town hall tonight for the referendum discussion...

What I meant was you are hung up on the fact the word can have multiple definitions. My last post is clear. In order to be considered part of the 'assembly', it has to be part of the primary function as described.

A heat shield attached to the chassis simply does not in this example. /debate

My point on 'attached' is specific to this example as illustration of a simple way to look at the 'exhaust system'. I am sure we could all think up other examples where an assembly included non-attached parts - but not a chassis mounted heat shield.

[Greg Amy]

This is kinda fun.

What I meant was you are hung up on the fact the word can have multiple definitions.

And yet your definition is the "right" one?

Why?

My last post is clear. In order to be considered part of the 'assembly', it has to be part of the primary function as described...A heat shield attached to the chassis simply does not in this example. /debate

Neither do exhaust hangers (you can "convey" the exhaust without hangers, thus they are not part of the exhaust "system"). Thus, you're now declaring that all stock exhaust hangers are required? That'll come as news to a lot of folk.

I am sure we could all think up other examples where an assembly included non-attached parts...

Then, by your admission, you agree that "attachment" is not required. Then we don't even disagree on anything!

Frankly, my dear, even if you consider The Great Heat Shield Exhaust System Battle to be intorturation, it is far, far, far less intorturation than using screw holes to run vac lines to sensors mounted on the gizzards of an ECU board, in order to get around a very poorly-worded regulation that was originally and obviously intended to stop people from adding engine sensors...seriously, man. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

This is kinda fun.


And yet your definition is the "right" one?

Why?

Neither do exhaust hangers (you can "convey" the exhaust without hangers, thus they are not part of the exhaust "system"). Thus, you're now declaring that all stock exhaust hangers are required? That'll come as news to a lot of folk.

Then, by your admission, you agree that "attachment" is not required. Then we don't even disagree on anything!

Frankly, my dear, even if you consider The Great Heat Shield Exhaust System Battle to be intorturation, it is far, far, far less intorturation than using screw holes to run vac lines to sensors mounted on the gizzards of an ECU board, in order to get around a very poorly-worded regulation that was originally and obviously intended to stop people from adding engine sensors...seriously, man. - GA

I just go by the GCR. And to your last point, not even close. I could have anything I wanted in the ECU housing. That was the rule. Non-modified housing allowed me to connect. Technology just caught up to a dumb rule. My official position on the debate was to open it up or go back to stock. Either way, just not the way the rule was written.

Not seeing any other support for your shield position so we can close this one out.

[Ed Funk]

[Andy Bettencourt]

Hey, it's healthy debate. Greg probably got the same message in his inbox but I will take a snippet from a relative newbie:

...while I haven't figured out what side I fall on for this topic, I can tell you that it has helped me look at the GCR in a new way, mostly a lot closer but also on reading what it says instead of what I think it says...

Hell, my brain is so clogged right now I am thinking about a 13B in a new MX-5 chassis.

[Andy Bettencourt]

On edit: keep in mind that if the only function of the exhaust "assembly/system" is to convey the air, then that makes things like exhaust hangers part of the "exhaust hanger assembly" and thus not open within the "exhaust system" regulation.

So now you are grasping at straws. I guess you can't attach your system. Come on.

No need to debate further. It's very clear to me what is legal and the GCR supports my thoughts.