Senior Member
I respect Dick's thoughts but I just don't buy it's not a grab at car counts to save classes. IT to Prod makes sense but IT to GT? That's a huge prep jump and if you were interested in tube frames and the like, you would already be there or in Prod looking to make a move.
Senior Member
The majority of the cars in all of those classes around here are tub Miatas. Change the tires, add some fender flares, cut the windshields off, stick a cam and SIR in it, IT-->GTL!Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt
Houston Region
STU Nissan 240SX
EProd RX7
Senior Member
Well for one thing, IMHO, GT will not survive if they only cater to tube frame cars.
dick patullo
ner scca IT7 Rx7
Senior Member
Administrator
GT tube cars are legacy racing, at best. Most major, popular racing worldwide (ignoring NASCAR*) is production/tub-based. All the remaining tubeframe sillhouette cars are either hanging on by their fingernails or heavily-subsidized by manufacturers (SCCA Trans-Am, DTM, and some Continental cars come immediately to mind).
GT2 was basically (at least from my perspective) "rescued" this past year by the inclusion of tub cars (Porsche GT3, Super Touring Over) and that's got a lot of people talking about how to include tub cars in GTL.
Tubs are where it's at, baby. Now if we could only get GT2 to run on 200TTW DOTs we'd be in the money...
- GA
* And if NASCAR actually ran tub cars from their manufacturers? I'd start watching that s**t again, even the ovals...
Senior Member
They call that V8 Supercars.
Houston Region
STU Nissan 240SX
EProd RX7
Administrator
Amen! Some of the best racing worldwide, along with BTCC and WTCC.
All tub cars.
Senior Member
BTCC/ Aussie V-8 (s) --Perhaps not really tub cars any longer--more like hybrid tubs with a spec tubular front end from the firewall forward.
Brazilian stock cars used weird looking tube frames.
Administrator
True. That's how we evolved into GT tube cars: allow me to "cage" my car to any point for safety, then we did it to the suspension and drivetrain mounts, and allow me to cut out the sheet metal in between and to "replace" all panels with plastic to reduce weight...so tell me again why I need to start with a production tub...?
Brazilian stock cars are nuts, more like DTM cars.
Administrator
Yep. GM SS RWD thing, Chrysler Challenger, Ford Mustang. Be good stuff.
EDIT-Not sure where the rest of my original post on siphoning of IT went, but looks like Kirk covered it better than I.
Last edited by Ron Earp; 12-10-2013 at 10:11 PM.
Senior Member
GT2 already had the Porsche... and they actually dumped a bunch more tube cars in too. <--- No pun intended
And you are half getting your wish... if I'm reading properly, they are putting GT2/ST cars back on DOT tires. annoying... and they didn't slow down everyone that they need to, only the winner who had a car hot on his tail, so why not that car too? hmmm...
Chris Rallo "the kid"
-- "wrenching and racing" -- "will race for food!" -- "Onward and Upward"
Senior Member
Ditto. Sorry, it's a blatant numbers grab.
The IT-to-Prod allowance is really only a matter of degree, since we could damn near do that before with Prep 2.
The GT option, if it's done the same way as the Prod option, where one can run in the same class where the car would be correctly classified, is beyond silly. Completely irrespective of lap times - 18 seconds, thinking of a MkIII Golf and comparing lap records at VIR, ITB to GT3 - there is exactly NO way that someone is going to decide to "modify their cars to meet the requirements" of the GT category.
No.
Way.
I think of it like this: If nobody actually turns their IT car into a GT car in the next 5 years, is it evidence that the policy is a failure? So we'll kill it...? No. Because that's not the actual intention of the rule change.
K
EDIT - And at some level, this is pretty insulting. IT isn't good enough to be a National (now Majors) category, but it's GREAT to add to the existing classes to make up their failing numbers. That's like telling a woman she's fine to have sex with, but you can't be seen in public with her.
Last edited by Knestis; 12-10-2013 at 08:50 PM.
Senior Member
Maybe I'm being a get off my lawn old codger, but this strikes me as a clear survive at all costs numbers grab.
Man, IT is the clubs whipping bitch. Need numbers for your category?? Invite IT!
While there might not have been an actual person saying "Use IT to fix your woes, but don't let them go national!" over the years, it sure has worked out that way.
It's a shame how SCCA has treated IT over the years, and how they've squandered the resource.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Senior Member
Maybe, Jake, things have worked out exactly as the men behind the curtain wanted. IT got turned into the Soylent Green necessary to feed the Majors (nee, National) classes that they really wanted to survive. Problem is, they've sucked most of the life out of it, with natural turnover (etc.) taking its toll.
Hmmm?
K
Administrator
I can tell you from my personal conversations with The Wizard, that the original intent was to take IT National. When that failed, Wizard said "eff it" and turned his attentions to bigger things....making B and D Prepared National, changing it to STO and STU, and adding a suspiciously-IT-Plus-like class, Super Touring Light.
Say what you will about The Wizard, but looks like Mission Accomplished to me... - GA
Senior Member
K
EDIT - And at some level, this is pretty insulting. IT isn't good enough to be a National (now Majors) category, but it's GREAT to add to the existing classes to make up their failing numbers. That's like telling a woman she's fine to have sex with, but you can't be seen in public with her.
Both of these statements are very true. IT gets poached to prop up numbers of other classes as long as they know their place. Not good enough for the big dance, but good enough to pad the entries. Just wait and see the exodus in 2015 when the Runoffs come to Daytona. Many new EP builds by IT drivers happening. Would have had 10 times that in IT entries if they were allowed.
Last edited by lateapex911; 12-14-2013 at 01:02 AM.
Steve Eckerich
ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
ITR RX8 (under construction)
Senior Member
Eating your young is a sure-fire way to extinction.
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