Open Coolers

[rsportvolvo]

I don't think folks realize how hot differentials can get, especially with Salisbury type limited-slips. Adding coolers should be a minimal impact considering all that can be done currently within the ITCS. I mentioned this awhile back and plan on running one regardless. The cost of a new differential is a lot more than a pump, lines and a cooler.

[Greg Amy]

The cost of a new differential is a lot more than a pump, lines and a cooler.

Choosing a lesser-performance differential that doesn't run as hot is a lot less than having to add pumps, lines, and coolers...

[rsportvolvo]

Choosing a lesser-performance differential that doesn't run as hot is a lot less than having to add pumps, lines, and coolers...

Possibly. The friction from a TORSEN type vs. Salisbury type will depend on a lot of design factors of each specific brand. The end result is the same, they all produce heat. Adding coolers is peanuts compared to getting custom bevel gears made, which is currently legal. Why not allow coolers? Heck it's extra weight and complexity.

Does anyone really think that someone will beat them on the track becuase they have a gearbox/diff/transaxle cooler? I sure hope that's not the case.

[Greg Amy]

SWISH!!!

(Picture of GA moving his hand across the top of his head, front to back...)

[Z3_GoCar]

SWISH!!!

(Picture of GA moving his hand across the top of his head, front to back...)

Greg,

Shouldn't that be:

Neeeeee......owww

[pfcs]

Hold it as a possibility that the comp board is the only people left with ANY idea what this class was (should be).
This talk is total senseless bullshit-what the fuck are you thinking?? Andy-please get off the ITAC-you don't belong there and neither did your vacuum line. Kirk-come on man! Don't you remember?
And regarding David Russel-who's long winded, "technically talented" ego driven posts I've endured all these years about a racecar that seems to exist in his mind only, IGNORE HIM! Pay no more attention to him, PLEASE!! And if he ever does get his 242 built, lets hope he puts an illegal diff cooler on his car just so somebody can protest him. What is this forum now, a playpen for the feeble-minded?

[Eagle7]

What is this forum now, a playpen for the feeble-minded?

Just silly-season pickin' up momentum.

[Knestis]

Hold it as a possibility that the comp board is the only people left with ANY idea what this class was (should be).
This talk is total senseless bullshit-what the fuck are you thinking?? Andy-please get off the ITAC-you don't belong there and neither did your vacuum line. Kirk-come on man! Don't you remember? ...

Seriously, Phil - even before the most recent kerblooie from the CRB, I'd pretty much resigned myself to the reality that my IT-Luddite ways were doomed, I was so outnumbered. As Greg has been saying for years, we will eventually end up with the IT that we (collectively) want.

I'm tired of feeling like that kid with his finger in the leaky dike. I'm tired of stupid, snotty washer bottle jokes. I'm tired of the whole thing. Chris asked about coolers at the ARRC. I told him to write the proposal because at this point, it's not IF we go sledding on that slope, it's WHEN. Unless a whole bunch of people decide they don't want to go there.

K

[JohnRW]

I don't think folks realize how hot differentials can get, especially with Salisbury type limited-slips. Adding coolers should be a minimal impact considering all that can be done currently within the ITCS. I mentioned this awhile back and plan on running one regardless.

So...you disagree with the the current rules-set, and you'll just disregard the ones you don't like ?

What other rules might you rationalize away ?

You've been building that Volvo for many years, and while you've never turned a lap, you seem to have all sorts of problems with it that others don't. Dana 30 rear end, big axle tubes out each side, holds lots of oil and has a reasonably big surface area to dump some heat. When I was racing a 142 with a Dana 30 solid axle, I had all sorts of issues (gearbox, engine, etc) but never a problem with the diff. None of the other Volvo guys with that same axle seem to have overheating diff issues. A friend with a "flat-nosed turbo" 240 rally car had occasional diff & axle issues, but he was running ballistic power levels in a difficult (pro rally) environment, far beyond what IT-legal has to deal with.

Most likely, you've picked the wrong class for your project. Feel free to build a GT car...the rules are right there in the GCR...you can modify and add all sorts of whizz-bang stuff, legally.

[tnord]

i would not support this, even as someone who could potentially benefit from it.

[Lael Cleland]

Mazda currently has a HUGE recall on power steering pumps and lines.....Brand new cars.... ya need all the help you can get if they still cant figure out how to build it...

[rsportvolvo]

So...you disagree with the the current rules-set, and you'll just disregard the ones you don't like ?

Doesn't everyone at some level? That's why folks search for loopholes and work arounds.

What other rules might you rationalize away ?

The ITCS 37mm exhaust valve that is only 35mm from Volvo. Care to discuss more issues with the 240 and the ITCS? My reclassification request is in process and I'm awaiting the results.

You've been building that Volvo for many years, and while you've never turned a lap, you seem to have all sorts of problems with it that others don't. Dana 30 rear end, big axle tubes out each side, holds lots of oil and has a reasonably big surface area to dump some heat. When I was racing a 142 with a Dana 30 solid axle, I had all sorts of issues (gearbox, engine, etc) but never a problem with the diff. None of the other Volvo guys with that same axle seem to have overheating diff issues. A friend with a "flat-nosed turbo" 240 rally car had diff & axle issues, but he was running ballistic power levels in a difficult (pro rally) environment.

A 142 is not the same as a 242. Hence Bob Griffith's ITB 242 being termed a "toad" by Eric Curran in testing. That is part of the issue in developing a new car, it takes a lot of time and research. I've done my research, helped other running ITB 240's and worked to reclassify the car with correct specs (weight is not a big issue with me). Now I'm ready to build the car and run it. Additionally my job travel requirements have prevented my cars completion. My car will be on the the track this spring.

The axle held together, but was it running too hot? What type of differential was used? TORSEN, Salisbury, welded, etc. Moot point without actual recorded temps.

Most likely, you've picked the wrong class for your project. Feel free to build a GT car...the rules are right there in the GCR...you can modify and add all sorts of whizz-bang stuff, legally.

I can run a 3-link with a Mumford-link or Watts-link in the rear with a custom bevel gears in an alloy M30/Dana 30 axle and still be 100% ITB legal. I can also run trick aluminum Tilton style clutches and adjustble blade-type ARB's in ITB. All whiz-bang IT legal parts. GT/Production requires more engine work, not much to gain on the suspension end. I picked the correct class for my project. Same ITCS rules in the same GCR.

Sorry about the thread hijack, but isn't this about the letter written to allow additional oil coolers?

[JohnRW]

Doesn't everyone at some level? That's why folks search for loopholes and work arounds.

It's quite a leap of logic to describe adding non-compliant items as "loophole- & work around- bait".

The ITCS 37mm exhaust valve that is only 35mm from Volvo. Care to discuss more issues with the 240 and the ITCS? My reclassification request is in process and I'm awaiting the results.

...and...

A 142 is not the same as a 242.

...are "red herrings".

A Dana 30 solid axle rear is a Dana 30 solid axle rear, regardless of whether it's in a 140 or a 240. An error in the GCR re: valve diameter is just that...an error. Is the lack of language allowing trans & diff coolers an error ? LOL.

The axle held together, but was it running too hot? What type of differential was used? TORSEN, Salisbury, welded, etc. Moot point without actual recorded temps.

So...you've never raced, and you're putting together a car that, to this date, has never turned a wheel on a track, but you're finding all sorts of weak links that you wish to be addressed by changes in the rules (or as you suggested, you'll just ignore the rules), even though you've never had these problems, and those with experience with these elements have never had these problems ? Am I getting this right ? So, we should consume the time of the CRB, to solve phantom problems ?

I can run a 3-link with a Mumford-link or Watts-link in the rear with a custom bevel gears in an alloy M30/Dana 30 axle and still be 100% ITB legal. I can also run trick aluminum Tilton style clutches and adjustble blade-type ARB's in ITB.

A whole net-full of red herrings. Yeah..those are allowed by the current rules. So what ? Trans & diff coolers aren't.

Sorry about the thread hijack, but isn't this about the letter written to allow additional oil coolers?

LOL. Thread-trajectory nannying.

Overt message: You'll ignore the rules you don't like.

Subliminal message: You really wanted to build a GT car.

[rsportvolvo]

One weak link: the Dana 30. I crewed for a friends ITB 242 and he had axle issues. Other friends racing Volvos recommended looking at options to keep diff temps down as they've had issues. You didn't have any issues or didn't check temps to see if you did, not sure which.

240 has a different engine and gearbox. So the next item down the power path is the differential.

Sorry my approach doesn't meet your approval. But then again neither does my car choice. I apologize for not asking first.

Like I said, when I get to the track come by and protest away.

[lateapex911]

Like I said, when I get to the track come by and protest away.

I hope you'll regret saying that, and it was a rash comment.

You have two honorable choices:

• Campaign to get a rule you don't like changed.
• Run a legal setup, and adjust your setup legally to deal with whatever issue confronts you.

Actually, a third. Put stickers on your car more in keeping with the prep level.

David, to be blunt, your current stance shows no respect for me, or my fellow rules abiding competitors. You are stating that you will choose to increase your performance via cheating. An accidental issue, I can understand, but this is a conscious and premeditated plan, which results in a malicious cheat, and I hope your fellow competitors are aware of your approach, and your lack of respect for them.

Greg, I believe you mean "Prop wash"...or in this case "Jet wash"....

[mbuskuhl]

fellow competitors

As long as rsportvolvo stays in the SOWDIV, there are no competitors to even file protests.

Latest standings have avg. car counts at:

ITA - 6.09
ITB - .36
ITC - .36
ITE - 1.09
ITR - .82
ITS - 2.73

It's a moot point.

Anyways, back to trans coolers. How about the competitive advantage "washer bottle".

[lateapex911]

Adding coolers should be a minimal impact considering all that can be done currently within the ITCS. I mentioned this awhile back and plan on running one regardless. The cost of a new differential is a lot more than a pump, lines and a cooler.

David, this is the comment that triggered my follow up. It seems clear from this that you plan to do what you want, in spite of the rules. How can we conclude otherwise?

And if you run one to spite the rulesmakers, are they the ones getting hurt? I am not following the logic.......