Teach me about ITR 325's

[Andy Bettencourt]

Can't find any good pics of my E36 M3 so I can't verify the lower lip and it's legality (Lawton - quick look at yours?) but I will say this:

I do NOT think it's ok to take that lower lip off. Parts that are UD/BD are supposed to be done so as an assembly. Picking and choosing pieces and parts on that bumper cover I would say is illegal.

[Greg Amy]

If one is to accept that the M-Tech is a legal car for IT - and arguments here support that, given there's no restriction against limited production vehicles - then the car and all of its parts is legal as-is, regardless whether those parts would not meet subsequent IT rules otherwise.

If, however, you are arguing that the M-Tech bumper/spoiler is not legal for IT as-is, then you're arguing that the M-Tech vehicle itself is not legal for classification in IT...

GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

So the question is simple: do stock parts trump the ITCS or does the ITCS trump the stock stuff?

[Greg Amy]

So the question is simple: do stock parts trump the ITCS or does the ITCS trump the stock stuff?

I would suggest it's plainly clear that stock parts trump the ITCS at all times. Thus, it becomes the responsibility of the ITCS to keep this in mind when they choose to classify vehicles of limited production.

- GA

[Doc Bro]

I raised this question a couple of seasons ago here and to the ITAC in regards to the Z3 wheels. It came with 7.5's, my arguement was specifically that it is a stock part. My how times have changed around here......

I think I'll get myself a ghost writer....it may increase my street cred....or is it that I'm just ahead of my time???

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

I raised this question a couple of seasons ago here and to the ITAC in regards to the Z3 wheels. It came with 7.5's, my arguement was specifically that it is a stock part. My how times have changed around here......

I think I'll get myself a ghost writer....it may increase my street cred....or is it that I'm just ahead of my time???

R

You aren't the first Rob and you won't be the last. Porsche guys and RX-7 guys all want to know why they can't use stock wheel sizes...and probably the crux of Josh's proposal to lift all wheel restictions.

Wheels are a perfect example where stock parts do NOT trump the ITCS.

[Greg Amy]

Wheels are a perfect example where stock parts do NOT trump the ITCS.

Any others?


On edit: assuming there are other examples - none immediately come to mind - the responsibility is upon the rulesmakers to correct these via line items, if so desired. The assumption has, and hopefully always will be, "these are the only allowed modifications from stock", or known more colloquially, IIDSYCYC. The corollary to that is if it's on a stock car, and the rules don't explicitly say that you have to remove it, then you don't. As stated above, the wheels are a good example, as there is a specific and non-equivocal line item that says "maximum wheel widths are..."

However, the M-Tech stock front splitter - assuming it extends outwards beyond the body outline - is a perfect example of where this does not apply, because the appropriate section begins "An airdam may be added..." If one does not "add" an airdam, then one is free to completely ignore this section, a section which specifies limitations to an air dam but only if it is "added". Further, if an airdam is added below the existing factory M-Tech airdam, only that addition is subject to the subsequent limitations, which, ironically, would mean it could stick out flush with the "out-sticking" stock M-Tech splitter...

I really, really, really, really hope you ITAC guys are keeping this kinda stuff in mind as you're allowing in these limited production cars... - GA

[seckerich]

Can't find any good pics of my E36 M3 so I can't verify the lower lip and it's legality (Lawton - quick look at yours?) but I will say this:

I do NOT think it's ok to take that lower lip off. Parts that are UD/BD are supposed to be done so as an assembly. Picking and choosing pieces and parts on that bumper cover I would say is illegal.

I believe the car was available with or without the extra lip. My late 98/early 99 had that bumper cover. At the end of a model run they are notorious for cleaning out the parts bin. If so it is legal either way, regardless of overhang if it is a stock piece. The precedent was set with the S2000 shock good or bad.

[dj10]

Can't find any good pics of my E36 M3 so I can't verify the lower lip and it's legality (Lawton - quick look at yours?) but I will say this:

I do NOT think it's ok to take that lower lip off. Parts that are UD/BD are supposed to be done so as an assembly. Picking and choosing pieces and parts on that bumper cover I would say is illegal.

Andy,
The E36 M3 front bumper cover is the exact same as the M Technic front bumper.

Does your statement mean that I can put on the black splitter piece and be legal?