1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL
No. I do not have any stats to back up it up but I would have to believe that the odds of having an incident where a helmet, fire suit or seat belts would prevent serious injury versus a H&N system has got to be orders of magnitude greater. Given the short history that has lead to the high cost of HNR systems I feel the cost outweighs the coverage at this point in time.
Each of the items you listed can be had for in the $100 to $300 price range and I have large selection to choose from. Make HNR systems meet those same requirements and I'll buy one. Until then I am strongly opposed to the creatation of a monopoly and being forced to support it.
Last edited by tom_sprecher; 11-28-2008 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Slow typing
Tom Sprecher
After reading this entire thread as well as the entire thread over at Roadrace/Autocross, there seems to be a commonality between them, and that is the people ranting about how we SCCA racers are/whiners/clueless/unconcerned about safety/HANS haters/ISAAC lovers(your choice) are individuals who either are not SCCA racers or have an axe to gring with SCCA. Interesting..........just sayin'
Dave Burchfield
GLDiv ITS #74
Mazda RX-7(the one Kirk parked on the tire wall at Seattle)
(or so I am told)
Rob Bodle
Rob Bodle Images, LLC
RBI Competition
2007 ARRC Three hour "not a real" Enduro ITO Co-Champion.
2009 ARRC ITO Champion.
2009 ARRC Enduro Pole Winner
2010 ARRC ITO Champion(car owner for Cliff Brown)
2011 ARRC ITO Champion
Vaughn,
I am surprised to hear of your discomfort with the HANS. My experiences are the exact opposite. As some people know I've had nearly a dozen shoulder surgeries and for the past few years its been very painful during and after the races from the shoulder harness. The pressure exerted on my shoulder has led to numerous neck aches and on bad bumps (like turns 2-3 @IRP) horrible pain. This past year I bought a HANS and the difference was amazing. For me the belt pressure is now equally distributed and at IRP I had no pain whatsoever despite running at the front of the pack. After races my neck and shoulder felt normal. It was an excellent added bonus. Maybe the issac works for some, but for me the yoke devices are going to be perfect. YMMV.
db
That's great, but, let's be clear, the safety aspects of the device are not causing you this new found comfort. You could achieve the exact same result merely by inserting a similar form under the belts to distribute the load.
Others are saying that the safety aspects of the HANS, DO cause discomfort...they have no other option if they are forced to wear the HANS. The architecture of the devise is the cause.
It's great that you've been able to kill two birds with one stone though! I hope you have a proper seat to go with the HANS.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
What I observe is that are three distinct areas to evaluate in HNR selection
1) level of protection while in seat, the sled numbers basically
2) egress in the case of an incident
3) comfort
I didn't include price although some people may consider that.
Constructive comments welcome........
You must have me on "ignore". Read what I wrote. Maybe that will answer your questions as to the resistance you see. Or maybe I completely mis understand your point.
As to the other clubs and their requirements, wow that's great. The homeowners association in Newport Beach, CA, where lots of rich and professional folk live, requires you to paint your house one of five colors.
Do I think they really know more?
What if the UL, back when the light bulb was first invented, got together with the bulb manufacturers, and agreed to write a spec that required all lighting sources to be able to produce XX lumens of lighting energy, use electricity, and tungsten filaments. There goes the be incentive to innovate and create LEDs, vapor lighting, HID, etc.
To suggest that we "do as the other guys are doing it" is the obvious best path, because others are doing it is to ignore some hard facts, and displays some naivety in the bigger picture, IMO. The possible path THIS new mandate could follow shows signs of being very different than the mandates of the past. If you want to que up, and follow the masses, fine. But that' doesn't break new ground, or win races.
I'm not saying this is black and white, and I do see the different sides, but that means I see alternatives as well.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Yeah, I guess so! Mind you, I do run a rather full season - typically 8 weekends! Particularly challenging, given that I race up north!!!
EDIT - also, 3 races/weekend at nearly all weekends, and 6 are at Waterford Hills - little runoff room for errors - 22 individual races this season! IOW, that's 6 incidents, only one involving another car, in over 100 races. 6% I can live with (and more importantly, so can my wife!)
Another good reason to cut back...
Still, I race with all the best safety gear, in a car that's built like a tank (apparently one of the few capable of taking out a Volvo, not that that's something to be proud of!) and I race hard and at the front...
Last edited by 924Guy; 11-29-2008 at 09:10 AM.
No, Rob - I can't. And I'll ignore your implication that I'm a loon, simply because I know you don't know any better.
I said PERSONAL experiences - as in meetings with Arnie K. and SFI "early adopters" of suit specifications, going back some 20 years. I'm not making this shit up, even though I am of course letting what I learned then influence my impressions now.
But believe what you want. You aren't alone in not understanding how SFI works. And you're muddling the entire conversation by putting FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS, et al. all in the same basket. It's way more complex than "everyone" does the same thing.
K
eg: I heard that the FIA does not do sled tests of the HNR. The do analysis of the mechanics and physics involved and then do strength tests of the assembly and/or components...
these articles are interesting also..........
https://www.paddocktalk.com/news/htm...rder=0&thold=0
http://www.cams.com.au/content.asp?P...&ObjectID=1103
Last edited by JimLill; 11-28-2008 at 03:28 PM.
If this dosen't open the eyes of some nothing will.
SFI spins-off from SEMA
Although a proud beginning, SFI now operates as a foundation independent from SEMA, yet dependent on all segments of the industry it serves, both for funding and participation. SFI maintains its own managerial staff and oversees technical committees. The Foundation is funded by companies which voluntarily participate in the specs program, along with financial support from member sanctioning bodies. As a result of this support, SFI has developed programs for almost eighty different products used by manufacturers, motorsports groups, and consumers worldwide.
Have Fun ; )
David Dewhurst
CenDiv Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14
I am sure its complex. I said I was not an expert. I was not calling you a loon.
I find the H&N thing a nightmare because its not uniform. SCCA guys seem to like the ISAAC. I can't use that when I run a NASA race. I can't use that when I want to run a Mustang Challenge race. I can't use my Hybrid either in those races. I have a modest budget at best. I can't afford a different H&N and helmet package for each sanctioning body I want to race with.
Rob Bodle
Rob Bodle Images, LLC
RBI Competition
2007 ARRC Three hour "not a real" Enduro ITO Co-Champion.
2009 ARRC ITO Champion.
2009 ARRC Enduro Pole Winner
2010 ARRC ITO Champion(car owner for Cliff Brown)
2011 ARRC ITO Champion
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