Senior Member
If one can swap engines and gearboxes between Acuri and Hondae, can the same be done with VWs and Audis?
And if I'm reading the STL gearbox rules correctly, any gear set of gear ratios can be installed in the 'box, and under the "Retrofitting OEM complete gear sets" allowance, one could mix and match from stock parts to get whatever 1st to 5th ratios one wanted...?
K
Administrator
Yes, IMO. Audi is a family member of VWoA, as is Porsche, Bentley, and whom else...?Originally Posted by Knestis
Yup. Or 6th, even......one could mix and match from stock parts to get whatever 1st to 5th ratios one wanted...?
GA, curious as to what The Prof has going through his head....
Senior Member
Playing with a solution to my SuperRally/hillclimb/rallycross/tarmac/ice interests again...
Pablo got so good at enduros, he's become obsolete for other fun stuff and I'm looking for options.
K
Senior Member
Does VW/Audi/Porsche manufacture their own gearboxes, or do they purchase them from other sources, aka Getrag/ZF? If the boxes are manufactured by Getrag/ZF are any gear sets allowed from any Getrag/ZF box?
STU BMW Z3 2.5liter
Senior Member
So far as I know, VWAG builds their own but gearboxes that bolt up to the Golf, Jetta, et al. have been around for so long, and in so many cars, there are all kinds of ratios available.
K
Administrator
Philosophically, from your perspective the 'boxes would need to have been installed in a family car to be able to be swapped. Technically, since gear ratios are free, Prof is thinking about what gear that have been made would actually physically fit in the 'box he already has... - GA
Senior Member
STO/U boxes are free, up to 6 ratios. I see no requirement in the rule s(dec fastrack) that the box be OEM. sequentials (A'La XTRAC) have a weight penalty.
STL boxes can be in-brand swaps "in their entirety" and/or "retrofitting OEM complete gear sets"
so it depends on which ST you want to play in. any ratios in U, like the prof is looking at, any VW/Audi trans or gearstack in L, so long as the ratio set is as delivered in some car from the family in the USA.
tGA - would chevrolet/pontiac/etc... be in the same family as toyota as toyota has built so many GM cars (FWD nova, GEO/Chevy prism, Vibe) or just those cars count as toyota? could I run a 3.0L toyota V6 in a vibe? Or maybe a honda 3.0L V6 like that used in a saturn vue in a cobalt or Astra? Taking it further - could I run a honda 4cyl in a toyota as they both make motors for GM thus are "all GM"???
generally speaking, I wouldn't say that honda or toyota = GM, but The automotive world is incestuous...
Last edited by Chip42; 01-03-2011 at 03:09 PM.
Administrator
IMO, I'd say "go with the badge" that was on the car. If the transaxle was ever installed in Pontiac, it's free game for any GM product. But if the transaxle was only installed in the Toyota version of the same car, I'd suggest it's not legal for a GM car... - GA
Senior Member
where's the line, though? GM and ford gobbled up everyone at one point. does isuzu count as GM (absolutely SHOULD for the past 10 years or so at least but what about their older cars)? SAAB? is volvo ford, still? mazda? Jaguar?? MB and chrystler have split, but could I take a 98 AMG motor and put it into my dodge challenger? there's bloodlines that run deeper than might be obvious on the surface.
I can accept that a "customer car" such as a GEO would be a GM for purposes of sourcing motors, and that such sourcing would be limited to that "brand". but what about the other direction - sourcing parts from a customer model (say the Geo prism) for use in a car of the original manufacturer (in this example, toyota)?? the "best" USDM toyota 4AGE was in a geo prism GSi. by the "intent" I feel this should be 100% legal, no questions asked, for a toyota car (corolla, MR2, whatever) as it's a TOYOTA motor, and an evolutionary version of one sold AS a toyota in the US previously.
Honda/acura, VW/audi, pontiac/chevy, etc... are really obvious "sister" companies. some of the others not so much - even mazda/ford/volvo/jag/etc.. which have a lot of overlap (same engines and/or chassis in many cases) I think would be a stretch to call "sister" marques but could very well be identical cars under the sheetmetal (Jag S/Lincoln LS/Tbird or Mazda3-Volvo30/40/50)
I'm basically only asking in order to get ahead of the problems that WILL eventually arise from different readings by racers/officials/competitors
Senior Member
Now I'm questioning what I thought I just learned.
In STL, does the entire "gear set" - so ALL OF THE GEARS, 1st-5th - have to be "retrofitted" in their entirety, or can EACH "gear PAIR" be retrofitted (potentially from different sources) to end up with optimized spacing 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5...?
Put differently, do I have to point at a chart of all of the gears in their original location and say, "We used these five"...? That as opposed to, 1st came from the stock '92 Golf GL, 2nd from a '97 Golf III, 3rd and 4th from a MkII Jetta diesel, and 5th from an '84 GTI...
Again - I'm looking at STL.
K
Administrator
STL rule states:
"Either the OEM transmission or an alternate transmission must be used; the alternate transmission must be from the same manufacturer as the vehicle (e.g., an Acura transmission may be installed in a Honda car). Alternate transmissions must be used in their entirety. Retrofitting OEM complete gear sets in an alternate transmission case is permitted."
STU rule states:
"Transmission and ratios are free. Forward gears are limited to 6 speeds."
On edit: BTW, that's something I missed, too; I was expecting you could mix-n-match gears. Honestly, I'd prefer you be allowed to...
Last edited by Greg Amy; 01-03-2011 at 06:04 PM.
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