What is a "touring car?"

[Matt93SE]

I think we would all agree that a Miata is a "sporty econobox" while an Elise, NSX, and S2000 are more pure 'sports car'...

But where do you draw the line? And does that apply for STU and STO/GT2 as well?

IMO, the Miata belongs in STL no matter what label you try to put on it. It's a Japanese econobox 4-banger that just happens to have a small body and 2 seats.. and a damn good suspension.

[Greg Amy]

I think we would all agree that a Miata is a "sporty econobox" while an Elise, NSX, and S2000 are more pure 'sports car'...

No, we would not.

[Andy Bettencourt]

No, we would not.

Agreed. Nothing more 'pure' than a Miata. A 'sporty econobox' IMHO would be something that looks like a sports car but has econobox underpinnings like a Mercury Capri or a Fiero. It's all about what's under the skin.

[Chip42]

The miata is FAR from an econobox - it IS a sportscare in all of the ways that matter. I'd agree that from the list given, the miata has the most "econobox" of motors, but in the sub 2L arena, most engines ARE econobox motors. one of the biggest issues IMHO with the fundemental principles of the class' displacement/weight formula. I like production's answer to that equation better. it allows for flaws to be equalized even under a limitted prep philosohpy.

[Matt93SE]

I stand corrected.. I guess a 1.6l engine with 100whp and 0-60 in >8sec is a sports car now.. sure coulda fooled me. Fook my old Maxima with 200whp and 6.5s 0-60 must be a supercar!!

[StephenB]

I have just been reading along so no real input here since I am not a contributing member or supporter to the whole ST idea.

Now that the miata is being considered as a sports car I guess people can stop calling the SCCA the Mazda car club of America and we can go back and call it the Sports Car Club of America again!

Stephen

[Matt93SE]

[Chip42]

I stand corrected.. I guess a 1.6l engine with 100whp and 0-60 in >8sec is a sports car now.. sure coulda fooled me. Fook my old Maxima with 200whp and 6.5s 0-60 must be a supercar!!

you have to contextualize the comments. think Austin-Healy, MGA, Elan, etc... THOSE are quintessential sportscars and what the miata was emulating, albeit an evolved version. Like them, the miata isn't about OMG face ripping acceleration, it's about balance. in that, it has a SUPERB chassis and a good enough motor. the miata is also a very unique car in the current automotive landscape, being one of very few and by far the most successful low hp sportscar. the HP gains in stock cars over the last few decades, and specifically the era from ~2000 to 2010 have been insane. old supercars (lambo miura, pick a ferrari) are slower than modern family sedans by 0-60 and 1/4 mile measurements. engine tech came on strong in the wake of better computer modelling. conversely, most chassis engineering has devolved into beams and struts liek it was in the original rabbit to make them cheaper and easier to build and to make more room for our fat asses and copious amounts of crap we seem to carry about.

We're talking about a 2.0L and under 4cyl class in STL - i.e. an econobox class, and a 3.2L and under class in STU - sedans, touring cars, etc... The definition of sportscar being put forward is that it is one with substantially better handling, balance, and smaller frontal area / better aero than the bulk of the sedans, econoboxes, and "touring cars" that otherwise fit in STL and U, ostensibly those cars for which the class was created. this offers such "sportscars" an advantage. lets list cars that even approach the miata in terms of chassis and "sportscar" characteristics built since 1985. miatas, S2000, Z3/Z4, MR2 SW20 and spyder (the AW11 is a corolla in reverse and much better remembered than it is to experience today), supra, RX7/8, 30/5/70Z, 200/240SX, corvette, elise, exige, boxter, cayman.... you can see the list elevates out of the STL range QUICKLY and out of the STU range nearly as fast. "sportscars" today pretty much are "super cars" of yesterday.

Your maxima with the stock V6 doesn't meet the requirements of STL and might not even fit in STU, depending on year (anything after the VG30 is out). The fact that modern cars are by and large SERIOUSLY overpowered for most SCCA classes is a whole 'nother discussion.

[Matt93SE]

Thank you for the clear and concise description. However, this IS the Sports Car Club of America, right? This isn't the Boxy Family Sedan Club of America, and IMO this goes back to the warts and all. you can cut up classifications until there's a different class for every car on the planet, and you'll STILL find someone that will argue that it shouldn't be there. again, IMO, but you guys are picking nits that just don't need to be picked. If you didn't want Miatas in STL, then you shouldn't have allowed them from day one.

Arguing theory of "what's a touring car?" three years into the game really doesn't make sense to me. stop bitching on the interweb and go make your Civic faster!!

(FYI, the Maxima thing was a joke.. It would be legal for STU at 3300lbs, but the car itself is so ungodly tall and has a horrible suspension for performance, so it simply wouldn't ever stand a chance of being competitive.)

[JS154]

I stand corrected.. I guess a 1.6l engine with 100whp and 0-60 in >8sec is a sports car now.. sure coulda fooled me. Fook my old Maxima with 200whp and 6.5s 0-60 must be a supercar!!

Sports CAR not sports ENGINE.

[tom91ita]

I am wondering if RWD is the proper criteria.....

or should it be F/R weight distribution? 50/50 is base case and 60/40 gets a 5% reduction.

Is it the driving location or the benefit of distribution that contributes the most to the sum of the parts?

[JS154]

I think we would all agree that a Miata is a "sporty econobox" while an Elise, NSX, and S2000 are more pure 'sports car'...

But where do you draw the line? And does that apply for STU and STO/GT2 as well?

IMO, the Miata belongs in STL no matter what label you try to put on it. It's a Japanese econobox 4-banger that just happens to have a small body and 2 seats.. and a damn good suspension.

Disagree, completely.

The STI and EVO support your argument, high performance derivatives of the crappy lancer and impreza econoboxes.

The Miata is a pure sports car, primarily designed for superior handling with small size and low weight/height.