Letting off Steam

[RedMisted]

All the shit on the weekend, the punting of the Shelby, the flap between ITRs #10 and #15, and the actions of the demonic driver in the #21 ITB VW all point to a CS and SOM that didn't want to do their jobs. They wanted nothing of all the paperwork and investigating, etc. that these events would have entailed.

Half the stuff that goes on in any race never gets fully sorted because the "officials" in the control towers are sometimes too damn lazy and just want to get on to the beers. How do I know? A well-respected person in SCCA who often serves as a CS and on SOMs once commented as much...

This weekend's IT fest was an event that Group 2 drivers are going to remember for a long time to come. I wouldn't be surprised if some stay away next year...

[gran racing]

You've got to appeal, otherwise you condone the system where noting is done to overly aggressive drivers.

I have to agree. The easy way out is to let this slide, but if you're still sour that probably won't be as simple as you may try to convince yourself. In this case, by appealing you can help correct a drivers action and stewards. Letting it all go means that you really can't complain next time it happens to you, or someone else.

[RacerBill]

I have to agree. The easy way out is to let this slide, but if you're still sour that probably won't be as simple as you may try to convince yourself. In this case, by appealing you can help correct a drivers action and stewards. Letting it all go means that you really can't complain next time it happens to you, or someone else.

Matt: I have to agree with Dave. There are different degrees of penalties that can be applied, so the penalty does to have to be overly restrictive. The point that has been made several times on this forum is that a paper trail of previous instances needs to be started. Otherwise, when a serious infraction occurs the SOM's and CS's can say 'Well, there have not been any other incidents.....'

Would have been nice to have some history on other drivers this weekend, too.

[jjjanos]

"While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

7. Penalties
All Club Racing participants are subject to control by SCCA, the GCR, and the Supplemental Regulations. This Section specifies the penalties for violating the GCR and the Supplemental Regulations. (Comment - I.E. the list contains the full range of penalties for a driver found in violation of the GCR. If it is on the list, it may be imposed. If it isn't on the list, it may not be imposed.)

7.2. RANGE OF PENALTIES

In increasing order of severity, the range of penalties is as follows: (A list of penalties which does not include not imposing a penalty.)

Based on what you wrote and my understanding of what the GCR directs, the SOMs found that he violated the GCR and, having done that, they must impose a penalty from 7.2, even if it is as minor as a $1 fine. No penalty is not on that list. The SOMS did not do that and that gives you grounds to appeal.

The reason is this is important is that, even though imposing a fine is considered less of a penalty than a reprimand, most Stewards won't impose a fine and will reprimand them, toss a time/finishing position and or DQ them.

Anything above a $99 fine imposes penalty points. The only way to establish a paper trail of violations is for a driver to have penalties imposed by the SoMs. Rack up 11 points in a 3-year period and you just bought yourself probation.

[teritanz25]

I have been reading this for two days now and just felt the need to give some feedback. I was there, I was in all four "events" for the weekend in Group 2. This will be my fourth year in SCCA racing IT-S in the BMW #25. In all the races that I have been to over the years I have never seen or heard so many complaints and gripes about one run group. We all know what has been said about Dan & Kip from Saturday. Then we have also all heard what happened between that IT-B VW and seems like everyone else. I have watched that video between Acura and the Dodge. We also had that incident in the first 1/4 lap of Sunday's race which seemed to involve four cars, one of which was the Red Mustang which I almost hit square in door as I entered the carosel. SO.....All that being said, I am not here to bash or complain, What I wanted to say is the even though this was probably one of craziest and some of the dumbest and rudest driving I have ever seen, I want to Thank Charles Tobel for one of the greatest and "cleanest" races I have ever had. For those who do not know and did not see, Charles and I raced each other from Green Flag to less than 4 feet at the finish, nose to tail almost for 20 laps. In all the things that were soooo messed up in Group 2 there were some bright spots and I do not want the world to think that because a few bad apples things are going down hill, I did have few moments where certain individuals would not move when they knew they should but that is racing I guess. I also am still up in the air about that start and whether we should be starting in the back, I say NO. The one thing that I hated the most about starting there was how early they threw the green flag after coming off of the Key Hole, I did start 6th so I was pretty close to the front and it was still just very odd how early they threw it, then on Sunday ( after my wheel feel off in qualifying ) I had to start last and that was even worse back there....Anyhow, sorry rant but just wanted to give my thoughts.

[John Nesbitt]

"While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

7. Penalties
All Club Racing participants are subject to control by SCCA, the GCR, and the Supplemental Regulations. This Section specifies the penalties for violating the GCR and the Supplemental Regulations. (Comment - I.E. the list contains the full range of penalties for a driver found in violation of the GCR. If it is on the list, it may be imposed. If it isn't on the list, it may not be imposed.)

7.2. RANGE OF PENALTIES

In increasing order of severity, the range of penalties is as follows: (A list of penalties which does not include not imposing a penalty.)

Based on what you wrote and my understanding of what the GCR directs, the SOMs found that he violated the GCR and, having done that, they must impose a penalty from 7.2, even if it is as minor as a $1 fine. No penalty is not on that list. The SOMS did not do that and that gives you grounds to appeal.

The reason is this is important is that, even though imposing a fine is considered less of a penalty than a reprimand, most Stewards won't impose a fine and will reprimand them, toss a time/finishing position and or DQ them.

Anything above a $99 fine imposes penalty points. The only way to establish a paper trail of violations is for a driver to have penalties imposed by the SoMs. Rack up 11 points in a 3-year period and you just bought yourself probation.

The poster wrote, "While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

This can be read as meaning that the SOM did not uphold the protest, and consequently did not levy a penalty. The expression "well-founded" is usually used to describe unsuccessful protests.

Perhaps the original poster could tell us whether the protest was upheld or not.

[tom91ita]

i would agree that our group 2 had its moments but there were also a couple of times that i was just giggling when the VW, Ruck Sr., Hardison, Heckman & i were close to each other. it had been quite a while since i was in a pack of several cars dicing for position.

with regards to starting on the back, no better or worse with regards to seeing the starter. i started behind Marty and could not see the flagger. i could see the little cupolo portion above the starter but that was it.

i have also narrowly avoided incidents in T1 with the "normal" starts.

i think i might have the distinction of being the first car touched by the VW in the Sunday a.m. qualifying race. Marty's video might be just starting just when i got bumped.

we were sort of bunched up and some accelerating was happening coming out of the keyhole and then we checked up. the vw tapped me (not as hard as i have been bump-drafted) and frankly i did not think anything about it then or now.

one question regarding the Sunday pm race. who was the BMW passing the crx's down the back straight under the double yellow?

i don't have video.

and kudos to Hileman in ITB. the only time i saw him was on the results sheets several inches above my name.

[ShelbyRacer]

The poster wrote, "While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

This can be read as meaning that the SOM did not uphold the protest, and consequently did not levy a penalty. The expression "well-founded" is usually used to describe unsuccessful protests.

Perhaps the original poster could tell us whether the protest was upheld or not.

My protest fee was returned to me, I was told it was well-founded, and that they determined the cause to be the tire issues. They also said they were going to speak to him about car preparation.

I am in the process of writing an appeal letter, which I will finish over the weekend. Once finished, I will make a final determination of whether I will make the appeall or not. I thank all of you for your words of support and encouragement, both publicly and privately. I have not had a chance to respond to everyone, but I will try to.

Most of all, I feel better regarding this incident, because no matter what the final outcome, I just want to make sure that I handled myself well on-track, and that you would all feel comfortable going in to a turn side by side with me. I'm not going to back off, but am I going to give you room to race me. I also want those in faster cars to know that I'm a heads-up driver, and that even though I was working to stay ahead of another ITB car, I also saw another race coming, and did my best to let them have their track for that battle as well. The last thing I want to do is screw up someone else...

Edit: Also @ John- thanks for taking the time to write your driver's guide. I've just been looking at it as a resource, and have found some helpful info that was not readily apparent from other sources.

[tom91ita]

most of us have at one time been the punter as well as the puntee.

my take on this is man-up and admit it whenever it is our fault. if the guy had apologized profusely or offered to help you repair your car in the paddock, etc., you would have likely felt different about it.

he did not learn anything from this incident. i would appeal.

[lateapex911]

My protest fee was returned to me, I was told it was well-founded, and that they determined the cause to be the tire issues. They also said they were going to speak to him about car preparation.

.

I just reread this. What a boat load of crap "Tire issues" is. So they really feel his tires were just FINE up at the keyhole, but they suddenly vaporized after the long straight into 4? Come on, what kind of moron buys that!?? Complete and utter BS.

Stewards, it's simple, THE GUY SCREWED the POOCH. You can NOT go into a corner that shallow and expect to make the radius at the same speed you make a much larger radius. Simple physics, folks!

ANYone with a racing license SHOULD get that, and a Stewards should too. It was driver error, resulting in avoidable contact. Hugely negligent, deserved points on license.

Matt, thank you for appealing, this was yet another case of Stewards being too nice, for some unknown reason.

[Knestis]

All the shit on the weekend, the punting of the Shelby, the flap between ITRs #10 and #15, and the actions of the demonic driver in the #21 ITB VW all point to a CS and SOM that didn't want to do their jobs. They wanted nothing of all the paperwork and investigating, etc. that these events would have entailed.

Half the stuff that goes on in any race never gets fully sorted because the "officials" in the control towers are sometimes too damn lazy and just want to get on to the beers. How do I know? A well-respected person in SCCA who often serves as a CS and on SOMs once commented as much...

This weekend's IT fest was an event that Group 2 drivers are going to remember for a long time to come. I wouldn't be surprised if some stay away next year...

DING, DING, DING! Winner!

It's been that way since I went to my first SCCA Club race in 1980. But don't be the guy who falls afoul of some particular issue that this brand of steward cares about, because they WILL find time then...

K

[BruceG]

All the shit on the weekend, the punting of the Shelby, the flap between ITRs #10 and #15, and the actions of the demonic driver in the #21 ITB VW all point to a CS and SOM that didn't want to do their jobs. They wanted nothing of all the paperwork and investigating, etc. that these events would have entailed.

Half the stuff that goes on in any race never gets fully sorted because the "officials" in the control towers are sometimes too damn lazy and just want to get on to the beers. How do I know? A well-respected person in SCCA who often serves as a CS and on SOMs once commented as much...

This weekend's IT fest was an event that Group 2 drivers are going to remember for a long time to come. I wouldn't be surprised if some stay away next year...

Chris is right..showing my age but Chief Stewards like Charlie Rainville in the 60's ruled NER with an iron hand and most of this Sh*t didn't happen. Granted...different times and no large fields of spec pinatas, but whatever Charlie did....it worked.

[RacerBill]

Chris is right..showing my age but Chief Stewards like Charlie Rainville in the 60's ruled NER with an iron hand and most of this Sh*t didn't happen. Granted...different times and no large fields of spec pinatas, but whatever Charlie did....it worked.

No, but we always had one or two classes where all the crazy want-to-be drivers congregated. First it was FV, then FF, then SR and SRF......

Yes, back in the 60's we had a wide range of CS's. Do you remember Heinrich Szamota? I can still hear him on the PA system at Bridgehampton saying, in his deep Germanic accent "All Group 2 car WILL report to the false grid NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

And then there was the CS who could never make a decision, so the Control Operator would move around while talking to him so that his head would move in the direction that you wanted him to answer, up and down for yes, side to side for no. This trait was later confirmed when he ran for public office and could not get elected dog catcher!!!!! (He ran for Animal Control officer in a small small town in upstate New York, and lost)