STL - what's going to be hot?

[lateapex911]

When I first heard the proposal for a class based on WC cars, I asked, 'OK, but, exactly how many of those ARE there, and of those how many will show UP regularly!?" My thinking is, not that many.

My next thought was, "And if so, then what period are you going to allow, because the rules differ year to year, not to mention car to car. heck, Even the same MODEL car had varying rules from team to team!"

Then it was suggested that they'd open up to other makes and models. (Which I thought was an obvious necessity), but that brings up the third dimension in complication, how do you set rules for THOSE cars? I'd guess, that you'd choose a middle point of performance for the WC cars, reign in the fast ones, loosen up on the slow ones and align the rules package with that middle set that will race essentially unaltered.

But yea, what a labyrinth of confusion ....it's certainly conceivable in theory, but tricky in actual execution.

Naturally I like the idea of "Process adders" for STL...

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of setting free the idea of stock intakes etc. It seems like that single aspect is the choke point for stock hp, and like it or not, the engine output will be determined by stock components, NOT the theoretical lbs per liter the rules are based on.
If the rules are theoretically based, then set free the real world limits, OR base the rules on the real world realities.
Can't have it both ways and have healthy multi marque racing result.

[Chip42]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of setting free the idea of stock intakes etc. It seems like that single aspect is the choke point for stock hp, and like it or not, the engine output will be determined by stock components, NOT the theoretical lbs per liter the rules are based on.
If the rules are theoretically based, then set free the real world limits, OR base the rules on the real world realities.
Can't have it both ways and have healthy multi marque racing result.

the head will still have a great influence over potential output even with everything outsdie of it being open. so your choice of motor will still matter so long as there ARE rules.

start with stock
specify:
displacement
CR
cam lift
open: exhaust, intake (SIR of XXX area?)
body/tire/damper rules are good as is.
weight per displacement, add/subtract based on drivetrain layout and suspension type.
see what happens.

[lateapex911]

the head will still have a great influence over potential output even with everything outsdie of it being open. so your choice of motor will still matter so long as there ARE rules.

Agreed. I'm trying to reconcile what I see as a gulf between theory (the classing system) and reality (what we will see in built cars on track)

start with stock
specify:
displacement
CR
cam lift
open: exhaust, intake (SIR of XXX area?)
body/tire/damper rules are good as is.
weight per displacement, add/subtract based on drivetrain layout and suspension type.
see what happens.

Eggggsactly what i was thinking.
And I hate to say it, but the SIR thought did cross my mind, but only for a second!

[Chip42]

SIRs open a big can of worms - but if you are going to make a blankett assumption that XXXX displacement yields NNN hp, then an SIR to displacement arrangement a'la GTL is pretty much the only way to make it reasonably true. given the displacement/weight categorization then simply opening the intake should allow the displacement to hit a physical power limit on its own, though.

I guess it depends on how fast you want the class to be. I am speaking / thinking about STU in particular.

as for policing all of this stuff - the less you require to conform to manufacturer spec, the less you have to police. bore, stroke, cam, CR - easily verified and really the crux of the classification system as I see it. it sounds like the whole thing is being over-thaught. yeah, economics make "stock" more attractive than "open" but the tradeoff is variety of competition. fine line. I don't envy the STAC.

as for letters - I also have a letter suggesting the inclusion of non-USDM engines (along with 11ty other things) but I think I will pen a letter specifically outlining my thoughts on that issue.

[Mrsideways]

For the most part aren't most if not all JDM engine's only different in a couple relatively minor area's?
ie
Pistons (which can legally be changed)
Rods (which can legally be changed)
Cams (which can legally be changed)
And Maybe intake manifold... which I wouldn't consider part of the engine.

[coreyehcx]

I only have experience with Hondas but yes that pretty much sums up the differences of jdm motors. Some camshafts could be slightly more aggressive but really the only differences for non usdm motors are they have a bump in compression under the allowed limit since the ITR/CTR motors would be illegal.

There are other differences but more so under the transmissions which doesnt even matter.

[CRallo]

For the most part aren't most if not all JDM engine's only different in a couple relatively minor area's?
ie
Pistons (which can legally be changed)
Rods (which can legally be changed)
Cams (which can legally be changed)
And Maybe intake manifold... which I wouldn't consider part of the engine.

which manufacturer are you refering to? Some engines were never even available in the US, let alone with different parts...

NTM if you can use the engine as a whole and just drop it in, its a big cost and time savings. AND, Even if you are building one from scratch anyways, it would mean no buying two engines to build one or scrounging for JDM parts at god knows what cost!

You can only change the intake manifold if you are changing driveline configs to allow fitment... IIRC

[Mrsideways]

which manufacturer are you refering to? Some engines were never even available in the US, let alone with different parts...

NTM if you can use the engine as a whole and just drop it in, its a big cost and time savings. AND, Even if you are building one from scratch anyways, it would mean no buying two engines to build one or scrounging for JDM parts at god knows what cost!

You can only change the intake manifold if you are changing driveline configs to allow fitment... IIRC

I guess I was only thinking Honda. Come to think of it, an RB26 in a 240sx would be kinda cool and MUCH MUCH to fast.
Come to think of it I think it would open up some turbo motors for the miata's easily.