Your Thoughts on Mandating 200+TW "Street Tires" in Improved Touring?

[downingracing]

Two sets of rims with race tires mounted and a set of rain tires. (Three sets minimum) You'll burn any cost savings having a tire or two mounted at the track, so at least two additional rims are a necessity (to me) for race rubber.

I bought two sets of gently used sm7 tires for $530 shipped that can last a complete season.

[XelderX]

Two sets of rims with race tires mounted and a set of rain tires. (Three sets minimum) You'll burn any cost savings having a tire or two mounted at the track, so at least two additional rims are a necessity (to me) for race rubber.

I bought two sets of gently used sm7 tires for $530 shipped that can last a complete season.

I borrowed a pair of rims to do some testing with, but I only have 4 rims for the car. I can't run enough races to have a shot at a season championship so if there is a good chance of rain I don't race. It's way cheaper and there is just too much of a risk for extra damage making a mistake on a wet track. I don't race if I don't have enough tire left to get through the weekend.

I started out on used SM7s, then a season of used R7s. This year was my first year where I purchased brand new R7s. I run a 225 front tire so SM takeoffs don't do me much good on that half of the car.

Listen, I get it. You don't want to run street tires, but you need to look at the big picture. The trends have already started to play out. I came from Solo Street Prepared category. It's basically the autocross equivalent of IT. It's a Rcomp class. My car used to be a nationally competitive autocross car. It's transition to IT was very easy as most of the car didn't have to be changed. I still use the same suspension and drivetrain. Street Prepared autocross is dying. When I started out in F Street Prepared the first year at Nationals there were over 30 entries. Last year there was half that many. It's been on a steady decline. All the Street Prepared classes (production cars on R-comp classes...sound familiar?) have been dying. Despite that steady decline Solo Nationals has been setting attendance records every year. So where are the extra entries going? Racing slick classes aren't really seeing substantial growth. The answer is classes using street tires...by a huge amount.

So we can all sit here and debate about the costs of this or the reasons for that. What we all have to realize is that the current IT philosophy is no longer appealing. You can watch it's Solo sister slowly withering to nothing. Something has to change and the powers that be are looking for something. If street tires aren't the answer then it doesn't really matter anyway. The IT philosophy is no longer appealing in a meaningful way.

If IT dies off then most of us have few choices for racing within the SCCA without it getting more expensive...either in car purchase price or running costs. Those who can will, but for most of us we will have to find alternatives and sadly it probably won't be in SCCA sprint racing.

[downingracing]

I borrowed a pair of rims to do some testing with, but I only have 4 rims for the car. I can't run enough races to have a shot at a season championship so if there is a good chance of rain I don't race. It's way cheaper and there is just too much of a risk for extra damage making a mistake on a wet track. I don't race if I don't have enough tire left to get through the weekend.

I started out on used SM7s, then a season of used R7s. This year was my first year where I purchased brand new R7s. I run a 225 front tire so SM takeoffs don't do me much good on that half of the car.

Listen, I get it. You don't want to run street tires, but you need to look at the big picture. The trends have already started to play out. I came from Solo Street Prepared category. It's basically the autocross equivalent of IT. It's a Rcomp class. My car used to be a nationally competitive autocross car. It's transition to IT was very easy as most of the car didn't have to be changed. I still use the same suspension and drivetrain. Street Prepared autocross is dying. When I started out in F Street Prepared the first year at Nationals there were over 30 entries. Last year there was half that many. It's been on a steady decline. All the Street Prepared classes (production cars on R-comp classes...sound familiar?) have been dying. Despite that steady decline Solo Nationals has been setting attendance records every year. So where are the extra entries going? Racing slick classes aren't really seeing substantial growth. The answer is classes using street tires...by a huge amount.

So we can all sit here and debate about the costs of this or the reasons for that. What we all have to realize is that the current IT philosophy is no longer appealing. You can watch it's Solo sister slowly withering to nothing. Something has to change and the powers that be are looking for something. If street tires aren't the answer then it doesn't really matter anyway. The IT philosophy is no longer appealing in a meaningful way.
If IT dies off then most of us have few choices for racing within the SCCA without it getting more expensive...either in car purchase price or running costs. Those who can will, but for most of us we will have to find alternatives and sadly it probably won't be in SCCA sprint racing.

IT is not dying off. If there is one thing the SCCA is good at, it's keeping classes around for ever!

I still find the IT philosophy appealing. We (SCCA) need to do a better job of marketing what we're selling and getting people involved. From what I see - many people run other clubs because they want to run what they have built to their liking and they can do that. They get their ass kicked (because building to the rules will beat building what you like every time), but they get to play with their car and have fun. Some are even competitive until someone comes along and builds to the rule set. Other people do the LeChump thing because of the perception that it's cheaper. (It's not -been there/done that) The potential track time is big. But on any given weekend, there are only a handful of teams who can win and everyone else is just there to have fun. If you want to race with the top amateur racers in the country, the SCCA is where you come to play.

I don't see the trend you see. I've used street tires running some Chump races and they suck. If anyone is looking to just race and have fun, they can use street tires now and save whatever money they want. Racers will always look for any advantage they can get, so requiring street tires just means more research and development to find the best 200tw tire and setup (suspension/shaving/heat cycles). Everyone keeps saying shaving does nothing - I'd like the hard data showing that. I'm guessing shaving to 1-2/32nds could make a difference in a sprint race. One person shaves tires, everyone has to do it (this is all about making everyone competitive correct?)... Or finding the 'hot' tire for a track/condition.

When everyone has 10/10ths builds, tires can be the last .02 to make a difference. Most people use tires as a crutch for poor driving. Anyone on new R (or A) 7s can pickup a few seconds a lap. I've beat many people on new Hoosiers while I was on used Hankooks. I plan to beat most people running used SM7s this year regardless of what rubber they run.

[XelderX]

I'll be at the Solo National Championships in September. If shaving street tires got you any gains someone would be doing it. I've been running them for two years and haven't seen anyone shaving them in that time. People were shaving the old Toyos, but those aren't really used anymore. I'll be there on Bridgestone RE71s with just a few runs on them to scrub them in. I suspect the 700 or so other street tire competitors will be on unshaven tires too.

[downingracing]

I don't know autocross, but I'm guessing the heat and beating tires take are different from road racing. So what works for autocross may not work for road race. If this street tire mandate becomes the rule, it will be some time before anyone shares data on what works (shaving/heat cycles) for each tire brand. Racers dont always share when an advantage is on the table.

[XelderX]

I don't know autocross, but I'm guessing the heat and beating tires take are different from road racing. So what works for autocross may not work for road race. If this street tire mandate becomes the rule, it will be some time before anyone shares data on what works (shaving/heat cycles) for each tire brand. Racers dont always share when an advantage is on the table.

Overheating the front tires in 60 seconds is pretty common in my Corvette. We compete a lot on concrete which generates more grip. Think ambient to 160* in a minute. I would love to have straights as long as most road courses have to help manage tire temperature. I think the street tires will be the same or easier to make last on road courses.

[XelderX]

Here is one issue that I'm not happy about and it could skew people's data with regards to street tires. If you run street tires on a track with a lot of race tire rubber laid down the track will feel "greasy". The race tire rubber and street tire rubber don't work well together. Basically the street tires will perform better on a green track than one with a lot of race tire laps on it.