Legality of crank swaps

[Greg Amy]

Chuck Stickley's already got 400hp from his S-54

The one described as "...over 400whp on a 3.4l stroker s54 that revved out north of 8500. I remember him saying it cost a ton, somewhere near $40k though."? Doesn't sound STU-compliant to me...

All the other non-turbo S54 engines and dyno charts there are indicating 350-ish. At ~3500# sounds like a good STU fit.

[Z3_GoCar]

The one described as "...over 400whp on a 3.4l stroker s54 that revved out north of 8500. I remember him saying it cost a ton, somewhere near $40k though."? Doesn't sound STU-compliant to me...

All the other non-turbo S54 engines and dyno charts there are indicating 350-ish. At ~3500# sounds like a good STU fit.

That's 350 with stock cams, which are open, and without head polish/porting. The right oe cams and it's another 10 hp, without even resorting to pulleys, or overdriving the two dry sump stages, which are prefectly STU legal.

[Greg Amy]

IMO, to me it still sounds within the philosophy and intent of STU...if you disagree, I encourage you to send a letter to the CRB/STAC, we'll definitely discuss it. - GA

[Z3_GoCar]

IMO, to me it still sounds within the philosophy and intent of STU...if you disagree, I encourage you to send a letter to the CRB/STAC, we'll definitely discuss it. - GA

Check this out:

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...px?Thread=True

15-20hp gain over a CSL air box, that'd put it right at 370-380hp without any internal blueprinting, compression bump, or even underdrive pulleys. I think we've got the motor to have here.

[Mrsideways]

Check this out:

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...px?Thread=True

15-20hp gain over a CSL air box, that'd put it right at 370-380hp without any internal blueprinting, compression bump, or even underdrive pulleys. I think we've got the motor to have here.

I thought we were gonna try to keep Independent throttle bodies out of STU. I realize they come stock on the S54's but just sayin

[JS154]

The one described as "...over 400whp on a 3.4l stroker s54 that revved out north of 8500. I remember him saying it cost a ton, somewhere near $40k though."? Doesn't sound STU-compliant to me...

All the other non-turbo S54 engines and dyno charts there are indicating 350-ish. At ~3500# sounds like a good STU fit.

The S52 is 3152cc.

The S54 is 3246cc, which makes the whole concern moot. The S54 is too large for STU, even if 3.2L becomes the rule for 2012.

[Z3_GoCar]

The S52 is 3152cc.

The S54 is 3246cc, which makes the whole concern moot. The S54 is too large for STU, even if 3.2L becomes the rule for 2012.

Nope, it's still a 3.2 as per the STCS:

I

.

Weights and Engine Allowances

Minimum weights for cars with normally aspirated piston engines will
be determined by 1.1 lbs/cc displacement for the installed engine (see
following table). Displacement is the factory displacement for the installed
engine. For

the purpose of weight assign ment, engine displacement will
be rounded to the nearest 100cc (e.g., 2150cc = 2200cc and 2149cc

= 2100cc).

[JS154]

Nope, it's still a 3.2 as per the STCS:


I

.
Weights and Engine Allowances

Minimum weights for cars with normally aspirated piston engines will

be determined by 1.1 lbs/cc displacement for the installed engine (see

following table). Displacement is the factory displacement for the installed

engine. For

the purpose of weight assign ment, engine displacement will

be rounded to the nearest 100cc (e.g., 2150cc = 2200cc

and 2149cc
= 2100cc).

Correct, but the rule specifially states "for the purposes of weight assignment".

it does not say that calulation is to be used for engine displacement eligibilty.

Reading the proposed rule strictly, "up to 3.2L" = 3200cc.

So the question then is what is the 3.2l cutoff? Is up to 3200 actual cc the ceiling for eligibility, or is 3200 calculated cc the cutoff? If the latter, the limit is really 3.249 litres, not 3.2litres.

The wording also says "displacement is the factory displacement". 3246cc is greater than 3.2l

for example: 5.0l (old old trans am limit) - Ford 302, Chevy 305. "5.0l" engines, but both were under the 5000cc limit.

I guess my point is the actual displacement limit should be clarified, assuming the proposed rule is adopted.

[Z3_GoCar]

My guess is the e-46 generation M3/S-54 is being brought into STU, because STU is being alighned to world challenge GTU, where this generation M3 and some of the pony cars are.

[Greg Amy]

My guess is the e-46 generation M3/S-54 is being brought into STU...

Don't overthink this. The car is NOT "being brought in", it just so happens to have a displacement that meets our stated philosophy for the class. And the philosophy for the class was changed from 3.0 to 3.2L because of the number of requests for exceptions we were getting for 3.2L cars, all of which we approved and expected to be approved going forward.

Nothing more, nothing less. No smoke-filled rooms, no dark ulterior motives to make the world great for Bayerische Motoren Werke.

We have demonstrated the will to exclude cars that exceed the performance expectations of the classes (see STL and Integra ITR and S2000, various Loti products). If you truly believe the performance of any of these engines is far and above the potential of its competitors, then put all your information together with a submission to the CRB. It will be seriously considered, but you better support the request; sending something like "exclude the 2012 M3 because it's too fast" will surely be responded with "we will continue to monitor the performance of the class".

It all starts with a well-written letter. Make your case, support it with relevant data.

GA

[Mrsideways]

The one described as "...over 400whp on a 3.4l stroker s54 that revved out north of 8500. I remember him saying it cost a ton, somewhere near $40k though."? Doesn't sound STU-compliant to me...

All the other non-turbo S54 engines and dyno charts there are indicating 350-ish. At ~3500# sounds like a good STU fit.

The problem is as you get faster weight means less. If you were doing a drag race from 120-150mph would you take the 2000lbs car with 200 hp or the 3500lbs car with 350hp (given they both had the same CoD)? I think the saving grace in all this HP to weight is that a 3500lbs car on 8 inch wide wheels aint gonna stop very well.

[Matt93SE]

Yeah, good luck getting a set of 245/45/17 Hoosiers to last a 30+min race on a 3500lb car with 350hp.

[JoshS]

The T2 Camaros did it, and that was with crappy camber too. But they complained a lot about it.