IT Motor Mounts, please send in your yes votes to the CRB

[trhoppe]

Next you will all want to change the rule to gut the doors.

Uhh, welcome to 5 years ago?

[Bill Miller]

Uhh, welcome to 5 years ago?

jhooten joke here =======



hoppe here ===========



WOOSH!

[trhoppe]

Bad joke, since we can't remove washer bottles

[Bill Miller]

True dat!

[Rabbit07]

My vote in with request to change the verbage to include transmission mounts

[Charlie Broring]

I'm old and grumpy and hate change. But I'm fine with the alternate motor mounts.

Charlie

[Gary L]

I'm older and grumpier, and JUST BOUGHT more new stock mounts. Screw yer change.

Seriously. Someone remind me again why this is so damned important.

...warts and all, etc.

[jhooten]

Uhh, welcome to 5 years ago?

Ok, I know my sense of humour doesn't play well with some people BUT
Uhhhhhhhhhh, you do understand you can't just gut the door because you want to, don't you?

[rules nerd mode] As you see in GCR 9.1.3.D.9.f "Other than
to provide for the installation of required safety equipment
or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger
compartment alterations or gutting are permitted."

You can remove the door trim panel and replace it with aluminum sheet but you cannot remove the door internals.

Unless, you look in GCR 9.4.D "In American Sedan, Improved Touring, Showroom
Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring the door window glass, window
operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and
inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the
inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed only if the
door bars extend into the door cavity. The stock side impact beam and
the outside door latch/lock operating mechanism shall not be removed
or modified unless specifically authorized in the category rules." [/rules nerd mode]

[MMiskoe]

"Engine, transmission and final drive mounts may be modified or replaced provided the location and orientation of these components is not altered in any way. All mounts must attach to the chassi and to the motor/trans/final drive in the original location and method."

This one should be a no brainer for the CRB to work over.

BTW why does the CRB have a link to email all of them but when you use it you get one back saying "nope, that email address is not how to get in touch with us, send your letter here"? Why not have that link right there in the FT . Am I simplifying something hard?

[mossaidis]

"Engine, transmission and final drive mounts may be modified or replaced provided the location and orientation of these components is not altered in any way. All mounts must attach to the chassis and to the motor/trans/final drive in the original location and method."

Done - thank you.

PS. Thank you ITAC and CRB for approval a weight correction to the 92-95 Civic Si. It can change to something else down the line as long as it equitable and within the ITA philosophy (lbs/hp with IT factors, etc).

[trhoppe]

Ok, I know my sense of humour doesn't play well with some people BUT
Uhhhhhhhhhh, you do understand you can't just gut the door because you want to, don't you?

[rules nerd mode] As you see in GCR 9.1.3.D.9.f "Other than
to provide for the installation of required safety equipment
or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger
compartment alterations or gutting are permitted."

You can remove the door trim panel and replace it with aluminum sheet but you cannot remove the door internals.

Unless, you look in GCR 9.4.D "In American Sedan, Improved Touring, Showroom
Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring the door window glass, window
operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and
inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the
inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed only if the
door bars extend into the door cavity. The stock side impact beam and
the outside door latch/lock operating mechanism shall not be removed
or modified unless specifically authorized in the category rules." [/rules nerd mode]

Just extend the door bar 0.0001" into the door cavity and you can gut the door. Not that hard to understand

[jhooten]

Just extend the door bar 0.0001" into the door cavity and you can gut the door. Not that hard to understand

Come through the post race impound and I'll write it up and let the stewards decide if it is compliant with the spirit of the rule.

[trhoppe]

Come through the post race impound and I'll write it up and let the stewards decide if it is compliant with the spirit of the rule.

edit: You know, I was going to post how sort of ignorant you were, then I thought "he really must be trying to make another joke if he thinks anyone gives a shit about spirit of the rules in the tech shed" so I edited my post

-Tom
who has been there, and won, more then once

[lateapex911]

Come through the post race impound and I'll write it up and let the stewards decide if it is compliant with the spirit of the rule.

You'll be protesting my car, and we'll be sending that one as far up the flagpole as it has to go. The rule is written in English, and I happen to understand that language.

It's my thinking that the Stewards can read too, and I doubt they want to risk their spotless record on a losing case, but, I'd be happy to take it to the COA.

Not only that, but there's isn't one good reason that can be cited for why my cars door bars are "wrong", beyond what the rulebook says.

[jhooten]

Well Jake that is what the appeal process is for. If you want to play fast and loose with the rules and try to claim your door bars extend into the door by .0001" that is your gamble. The paint may, the bar does not.

I suggest a review of GCR 1.2.3. Interpreting and Applying the GCR
A. Interpreting the GCR shall not be strained or tortured and applying
the GCR shall be logical, remembering that the GCR cannot specifically
cover all possible situations. Words such as “shall” or “shall
not”, “will” or “will not”, “can not”, “may not”, “are” or “must” are
mandatory; and words such as “may” and “should” are permissive.

Claiming a bar extends in the door by only breaking the plane by .0001" is straining to the breaking point.

[lateapex911]

I think the term .001" or whatever is a euphemism for the term "barely"...I've got actual steel within the door side of the door plane. It meets the words of the rule. Maybe not the "intent" as you see it though.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Well Jake that is what the appeal process is for. If you want to play fast and loose with the rules and try to claim your door bars extend into the door by .0001" that is your gamble. The paint may, the bar does not.

I can't wait to fight a protest for crappy driving by saying that my 'paint' hit him, not the 'car'.

LOL

I hope the ITAC can figure out a way to allow alternate motor, tranny and diff mounts without creating issues. Sometimes I wish we could publish intent.

[EV]

Come through the post race impound and I'll write it up and let the stewards decide if it is compliant with the spirit of the rule.

Is this guy really a sphincter, or is he kidding?

[erlrich]

Ok, I know my sense of humour doesn't play well with some people BUT
Uhhhhhhhhhh, you do understand you can't just gut the door because you want to, don't you?

[rules nerd mode] As you see in GCR 9.1.3.D.9.f "Other than to provide for the installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted."

You can remove the door trim panel and replace it with aluminum sheet but you cannot remove the door internals.

Unless, you look in GCR 9.4.D "In American Sedan, Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring the door window glass, window operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed only if the door bars extend into the door cavity. The stock side impact beam and the outside door latch/lock operating mechanism shall not be removed or modified unless specifically authorized in the category rules." [/rules nerd mode]

Or... if your car was registered prior to 1/1/08, you get to use 9.4.2.G:
"Two (2) side tubes connecting the front and rear hoops across both door openings are mandatory. Door side tubes may extend into the door. NASCAR-style side protection, or one bar bisecting another to form an “X” is permitted. The door window glass, window operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed to facilitate this type of side protection. The stock side impact beam and the outside door latch/lock operating mechanism shall not be removed or modified."

But I digress...

Letter in support of alternate mounts sent

[John Herman]

Good luck with policing this one. BTW, what are the tolerances on the engine/trans location? Engines/trans will be lowered, rotated, etc. by people looking for that small performance advantage. Try to prove that is hasn't been, or worse, just try to get specs on the "stock" location of the engine so you can write the protest.