Proposed change to TIR table....

[Greg Amy]

You think the tubo guys will like being slowed down to EP lap times? Then you think us N/A guys are going to wait around while you didle with the TIR size to weight chart to slow them to that point? If none of the N/A guys show up next year there'll be what... maybe 5 STU cars? I know that Royle's already gone to EP, so has Matt, Rosenburg's sold his car. Not that it matters much, but I'm just this close to going EP too, STU's about to do an ITR in So-Pac.

Yes.

What else do you suggest we do, James; ban turbo cars entirely? Isn't that more than a bit self-centered and unrealistic? If E Prod is such the perfect answer, why didn't you go there in the first place many years ago? Honestly, James, in my personal opinion the foot-stomping and whining has gotten to the point where I'm thinking "hey, don't let the door hit you in the ass"...

There's a reason you're racing Super Touring, whatever it is, and that's the goal we're trying to hit. And threatening to leave won't change that effort (ask your California T1 Corvette drivers how that worked out for them).

GA

P.S. Read my sig...

[Z3_GoCar]

Yes.

What else do you suggest we do, James; ban turbo cars entirely? Isn't that more than a bit self-centered and unrealistic? If E Prod is such the perfect answer, why didn't you go there in the first place many years ago? Honestly, James, in my personal opinion the foot-stomping and whining has gotten to the point where I'm thinking "hey, don't let the door hit you in the ass"...

There's a reason you're racing Super Touring, whatever it is, and that's the goal we're trying to hit. And threatening to leave won't change that effort (ask your California T1 Corvette drivers how that worked out for them).

GA

P.S. Read my sig...

I'm not being whiney or foot stomping... just letting you know that there's a cliff you're about to go over. Good luck growing a class by telling the participants to "don't let the door hit you in the ass"....

[Greg Amy]

James, look: there are no plans to ban turbo cars from STU. There's not even any discussion of possibly discussing that. It's just not an option on the table.

I understand your (and others) concerns, and the committee is going to consistently adjust the regs to the best of our ability to equalize competition - generally - between turbo and non-turbo cars. But we are not going to ban them from STU. So if you are already convinced that these cars cannot coexist then while I'd really lament losing you, STU is not going to be the class for you...call me next time you're around here, I'd love to have dinner and a beer with you again and we can discuss it. - GA

[Matt93SE]

Instead of slowing down the turbo cars, why not speed up the N/A cars?
the cost of building an N/A engine within SCCA's rules to keep up with a turbo car is pretty asinine.

high compression, big cams, machine everything to the gnat's ass, spin it to 9,000rpm so you can suck it all through a crappy stock intake manifold and throttle body, then blow it all up and rebuild it at $10k a season.
OR
bolt in a bone stock turbo engine from something else and kick ass- reliably?

I know which one I'd rather do.

How about opening up the N/A rules a touch to help out those cars vs. slowing down the turbo guys. This is supposed to be Super Touring after all. modeled after WC Touring cars.. The WC cars have completely custom intake manifolds- some with ITBs- and whatever else you can throw at them. Then the guys building stuff in their garage are stuck with a manifold that can't flow for sheit. when you know you're going to lose with that combination, why bother trying to win?

[bamfp]

^^^^^^I like that idea^^^^^^

[Greg Amy]

^^^^^^I like that idea^^^^^^

I don't. This would require approving and managing individually vehicle prep specs.

Do you trust the same committee that you're blasting above to review, approve, and manage those individual considerations?

Blech!

[JIgou]

I don't. This would require approving and managing individually vehicle prep specs.

Do you trust the same committee that you're blasting above to review, approve, and manage those individual considerations?

Blech!

My take is that Matt is talking about wholesale N/A changes, not WC-style individual "give this car one thing, that car a different thing, and that other one something completely different."

[Z3_GoCar]

James, look: there are no plans to ban turbo cars from STU. There's not even any discussion of possibly discussing that. It's just not an option on the table.

I understand your (and others) concerns, and the committee is going to consistently adjust the regs to the best of our ability to equalize competition - generally - between turbo and non-turbo cars. But we are not going to ban them from STU. So if you are already convinced that these cars cannot coexist then while I'd really lament losing you, STU is not going to be the class for you...call me next time you're around here, I'd love to have dinner and a beer with you again and we can discuss it. - GA

Had a quick talk with John Norris yesterday. He was telling me of the days when he raced turbo's for Mitsubitshi's factory team. He said, "For every method you come up with to limit a turbo, there's a way around it." So, ultimatly if there are turbo cars in the class, then anything else is racing as a back marker.

Are you going to be at the convention, is it still in Veas? I might drop in there because of my activity with our regions TT program, Vegas is s a day trip from my house.

James

[Greg Amy]

Nope, no Vegas for me (unless someone else is buying...?) But I think all of the CRB is going there, and I'm sure you'll find some other STAC guys too (lists on SCCA's web site, behind the member wall). Look 'em up, bend their ears. - GA