My opinion is this:
Get rid of National and Regional status.
Run all races as Club Races.
Top 24 make the runoffs.
Senior Member
My opinion is this:
Get rid of National and Regional status.
Run all races as Club Races.
Top 24 make the runoffs.
John McFarland
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#02 GTA Chevy Monte Carlo
Scott McFarland
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#88 ITC Renault Alliance
Mentor, OH
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Now that makes good logical sense.Originally Posted by John McFarland
Let the most raced classes in the SCCA have a runoffs position. No more "regional vs national".
Member
This makes the most sense. Simply allow everyone to race at the same level and the highly subscribed classes make it to the championship.
The cost argument is not a valid argument. We spend as much on our IT cars as we do on our AS cars. It is a matter of what each individual is willing to spend on their hobby.
The whole point behind this organization is for all of us to have a place to spend our extra income and have a good time with our cars and this just opens up the venues for us to race more if we chose.
Senior Member
Random observations:
There's going to be a huge amount of push back from long established classes that have withered through their own stupidity or changes in taste. There will be a huge production if/when this were to happen. Everyone's favorite whipping boy - open-wheel - however seems to be in the clear for the most part.
2. I'd be real interested in seeing the specifics for how one would qualify for the Runoffs when every race awards points. Are drivers limited in the number of races they can use? Are they required to run away from their "home" track? DC Region holds 9 races per year at Summit Point. Are the time requirements going away? etc. Devil is in the details.
Senior Member
EXCELLENT observation. I had a discussion with a CRB member about this exact thing. Here is how we could do it:
1. Don't eliminate National - Regional. If IT were to make National status, the meaning of the words would just change. National races would become 'Runoff Qualifiers' and Regionals would be what they are now.
If you wanted to eliminate National races and start from scratch, you would put the responsibility of each Division to create and manage a qualifying system in which they would send invites to the top X performers in each class to the Runoffs. You could create a way to determine those that get invites in a wide variety of ways...the possiblilities and combinations are almost endless. Weighted Regionally, Division-wide, really anything. The object being - sending your best performers to the Dance.
Senior Member
Dilution though. Will hurt the traditional regional races.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Senior Member
Your definition of delution is someone elses definition of having a chance to win...
If you have 10 regulars in ITS now in a Regional-only scenario, I bet that IT going National would have this effect:
7 National and 8 Regional.
5 go National and now because IT is National, you have 3 of your regulars and add 2 who like the rules better.
7 of your regulars stay and 1 or 2 come because the big-money/uber-talented guys have left.
Less Regional competitors? Yes, but more OVERALL. (Assuming the ruleset is popular). If you combine Regional and National SM counts, I bet you see a net gain over when it was just regional.
Just a hunch..
Senior Member
If regional / national distinction were dropped, the number of races should drop. We no longer need duplicity of events to serve both groups (which is what some regions already do to make ends meet), and can have more races than current national schedules, with enough competitors to fill them.
For instance, we have 10 regional races in CenDiv, and 1 or 2 nationals are 'restricted regionals' that allow IT cars. We have 5 nationals. A total of 15 races over 11 weekends (8 of the regionals take place over 4 double weekends). In a non-segregated world we could have 10 good nationals, save one weekend of track rental (well probably use that weekend for driver school) and have larger, more competitive fields at every one. Not to mention actual practice, qualify and race sessions, rather than a 2 session race day (I love racing, but hate not having 2 sessions before race time at a double event).
Seems to me the workers would get less burned out, and the events would draw enough racers to reduce entry fees.
The number of classes is another kettle of fish. I also think that part of eliminating the national / regional distinction would be eliminating the classes without national rule sets - either by creating national rule sets, or eliminating the classes, and where it makes sense - making provisions for the affected cars to compete in existing classes: welcome back to ITA/or welcome to ITB - RX7s, weclome to BP or DP - ITE, welcome to FF - CF, welcome to SM - SMT, SSM, etc
Senior Member
My 2 cents:
The cost argument is a valid point and yes you can spend just as much on a IT car as an AS car.
Having been to the Runoff's many,many times and as a 2 time National Champion
Crew chief I know what it costs to win. It takes a lot. Example the 2007 Runoffs: Tire bill was $7500.00 dollars. Now we did win $3000.00 of that back but..... it still had to spent up front. That's a lot but that's what it takes to win.
There are only 2 nationals allowed per track so that cuts down on the number of national events in the division. You must start 4 nationals and be counted as a finisher in 3 as a minumum and can only count your best 6 finishes of which only 2 can be from outside the divison. That's my 2 cents.
Senior Member
And the 2 "new" competitors you are adding are not new - they are poached from another class, so the net effect is 3 diluted classes - The "new" National IT class, the regional IT run group and whichever class those 2 poached drivers were running.
If you have 10 regulars in ITS now in a Regional-only scenario, I bet that IT going National would have this effect:
7 National and 8 Regional.
5 go National and now because IT is National, you have 3 of your regulars and add 2 who like the rules better.
7 of your regulars stay and 1 or 2 come because the big-money/uber-talented guys have left.
Less Regional competitors? Yes, but more OVERALL. (Assuming the ruleset is popular). If you combine Regional and National SM counts, I bet you see a net gain over when it was just regional.
Just a hunch..
Your proposal doesn't add entrants. It simply shuffles them into more boxes and that is the definition of dilution.
You want to add more drivers, then look at what those who would race with us but currently do not would like. The pool of people who are sitting out racing because 5-year old cars with limited mods cannot run at Topeka is about as shallow as the gene pool in Appalachia.
The proposal to move IT to National doesn't cure the disease. It treats the symptoms and masks the problem. National racing is suffering because the Runoffs (tm) are in a terrible location for both coasts, because a significant number of national competitors would rather have a colostomy than go to the circuit where the Runoffs (tm) are being held, because the respective rules setting bodies keep jerking drivers around like a detainee at Guantanamo, because the cost of building and prepping a National-level car is more than a B-2 bomber and because the travel expenses/demands to qualify for Runoffs are ridiculous.
Simply moving IT to National does nothing for location, venue, rules, cost or travel. In fact, odds are that once the cat is out of the Regional-only box, the IT rules will be about as stable as Brittney Spiers grasp of reality. So what we got here is no benefits and a likely big negative.
Those who stand fast the hardest about rules creep should be manning the ramparts about this.
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