Chumpcars can run NASA !!

[forestdweller37]

The top running teams here in the Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin area aren't that expensive. They're just stock E30 or E36 BMW's with some maintenance and good drivers.

[spawpoet]

The top running teams here in the Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin area aren't that expensive. They're just stock E30 or E36 BMW's with some maintenance and good drivers.

The same drivers/cars wouldn't be running up front in a more competitive region then. IMHO good/great driving, good suspension, stock motor gets you mid-pack in parts of the country where IT is highly competitive. We put a driver who's finished 2nd in prod at the Runoffs more than once in our car, and he was more than 3 sec slower than top ITS times in our region (CFR) at the track we ran. We have spent about what you'd have in a top running Chump car in our car, with essentially a stock motor. To play up front in ITS in Sediv you're gonna have 12-15k in your car unless you're building your engine yourself. I might be low with that number.

[mossaidis]

^ I would guess more like $20K+ for a 9/10ths build

[Flyinglizard]

Simon, what races have you run?? There is more contact in the first 30sec of a SM race than all of our Chump races. NASA has been clean also.

My "A "car will be boosted by the end of the week. T 3 turbo, chinese manifold etc.
We started , ITB times would get you top 5 lap times. Now , we need about 2:40 flat for Sebring,( ITA or hot SM times.) even now with the Sebring being slower by about 1.5 sec. I need a real 160hp , 2000#,

No rules makes it tough. I'll be out by next year.

[Knestis]

So Mike's got me thinking, particularly his idea about tire-limiting performance. I'm picturing where LeChump eventually, logically meets club endurance racing. The performance - and cost - escalation is impressing even this jaded old bahstahd... So let it. But limit performance not only by the type of tire but the size. The more I think about it, the more I like "under-tired" and "way under-tired" as classes. For a start...

Then require open differentials.

Establish a minimum weight of 1 pound per cc of engine displacement.

Add the old-school refueling rules we had under the ESCORT series - rigs galore but you've got to use an unmodified commercial unleaded gas pump hose nozzle.

Get rid of the silly crap - the themes, bogus penalties, and all the rest. Let people start taking some more pride in how their cars look, 'cause frankly the shark fins and goofy stuff *really* puts me off.

Finally, accept the reality that we can't control costs. The tire and diff limits will conspire to

Go racing...?

K

[forestdweller37]

The top running teams here in the Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin area aren't that expensive. They're just stock E30 or E36 BMW's with some maintenance and good drivers.

The same drivers/cars wouldn't be running up front in a more competitive region then. IMHO good/great driving, good suspension, stock motor gets you mid-pack in parts of the country where IT is highly competitive. We put a driver who's finished 2nd in prod at the Runoffs more than once in our car, and he was more than 3 sec slower than top ITS times in our region (CFR) at the track we ran. We have spent about what you'd have in a top running Chump car in our car, with essentially a stock motor. To play up front in ITS in Sediv you're gonna have 12-15k in your car unless you're building your engine yourself. I might be low with that number.

We may have had a miscommunication. I was referring to the fast Chumpcar teams around here. They proved their pace at the National Chumpionship last year. If they're faster teams in the SE, we haven't seen them up here.

The point is still very valid that the Chumpsters are starting to look decidedly less "chumpy" and the costs/prep level are evolving rapidly. "$500 car" is more of a qualifier for the year/make/model than any reflection of the cars' true value. I think the pace of development is a result of the team-based structure. i.e. 4x the check writing capability, 4x people turning wrenches, 4x data collected and shared between drivers, etc.

[spawpoet]

We may have had a miscommunication. I was referring to the fast Chumpcar teams around here. They proved their pace at the National Chumpionship last year. If they're faster teams in the SE, we haven't seen them up here.

The point is still very valid that the Chumpsters are starting to look decidedly less "chumpy" and the costs/prep level are evolving rapidly. "$500 car" is more of a qualifier for the year/make/model than any reflection of the cars' true value. I think the pace of development is a result of the team-based structure. i.e. 4x the check writing capability, 4x people turning wrenches, 4x data collected and shared between drivers, etc.

Gotcha. I thought you were referring to the top ITS cars, not chumpcars. My bad.

[Flyinglizard]

Ijust put in the locked diff, light flywheel, T 3 turbo, water cooled brakes, 3.94 gear, fuel cooler, splitter,
The car is a 285$ car.. All legal .

[Spinnetti]

Ijust put in the locked diff, light flywheel, T 3 turbo, water cooled brakes, 3.94 gear, fuel cooler, splitter,
The car is a 285$ car.. All legal .

rrriiiiiiiight.... you know in chump, all that stuff is at market value, not at "I found it under my bench" value right? So I should be able to find all that stuff for $215 total?

[Knestis]

>> ... I think the pace of development is a result of the team-based structure. i.e. 4x the check writing capability, 4x people turning wrenches, 4x data collected and shared between drivers, etc.

That's an interesting thought...

K

[Ron Earp]

rrriiiiiiiight.... you know in chump, all that stuff is at market value, not at "I found it under my bench" value right? So I should be able to find all that stuff for $215 total?

Good luck. Last time I tried to find a worn out T3 for a project I never came up with anything under $70. That's 1/4 the $215 and some of that other stuff is expensive.

But of course, it isn't really street prices that count, it is what your "bill of sale" says you bought it for. Like when I sold a MM panhard rod to a kid for $300 but he wanted me to sign the Craigslist advertisement he made using my text and pictures but with a $60 price.

The whole $500 chump car premise is an effort to contain costs, but I don't really think it is all that effective. People use creative solutions to skirt the price point because after all, they are racers and push the rules boundary.