Rental Costs

[lateapex911]

Tyler, thanks for sharing the info. One aspect that hasn't really been mentioned but can and does happen is, what happens when say I give you the up front $2000, and my fee, and the money for the crew food and lodging for an enduro, and the first driver stuffs it into the turn 11 wall at RA in some "I'm' pitting" screw up, and I'm left standing with my suit and helmet on, never having turned a wheel? (And, lets say the other driver was in for qualifying and the session got redflagged so I didn't turn a wheel then).

(I mention this, because it's an aspect of racing that sucks all around, but if you don't deal with it upfront, there can be tears shed after)

[callard]

what happens when say I give you the up front $2000, and my fee, and the money for the crew food and lodging for an enduro, and the first driver stuffs it

Easy. The beer party starts early for your team!

[Simon T.]

Tyler, thanks for sharing the info. One aspect that hasn't really been mentioned but can and does happen is, what happens when say I give you the up front $2000, and my fee, and the money for the crew food and lodging for an enduro, and the first driver stuffs it into the turn 11 wall at RA in some "I'm' pitting" screw up, and I'm left standing with my suit and helmet on, never having turned a wheel? (And, lets say the other driver was in for qualifying and the session got redflagged so I didn't turn a wheel then).

(I mention this, because it's an aspect of racing that sucks all around, but if you don't deal with it upfront, there can be tears shed after)

That's the exact thought I had yesterday, I'm interested to see input on that.

Thanks for posting those prices Tyler that's a good comparison.

[Simon T.]

While we're on the cost subject, I've added up what I think is a good year budget, although it's horrifying.

I got a little under $10,000 for six races or so and that's not including towing costs, oil changes, extra parts, etc. It includes entry fees, tires, food, gas, brake pads, and that's about it. Does that sound right?

[lateapex911]

The "not includings" is far more significant:

The paper towels, brake kleen, bearings, hubs, pressure plates (while you're at it on the clutch), replaced mufflers, bodywork form the newb who t boned you in the corner at the end of the straight when he tried the 1 marker, the replaced windshield from the stone that got thrown up, the replaced master switch that fried on grid and cost you that race, (and the wire and connectors and the special crimp too you got because you thought that was the problem, the fuel filters, the new fuel system because the tank has rust, the blown out tire on the tow vehicle, the gloves and pads for your crew guys, the containers to hold all the spares that go to the track, ....and all the stupid two and one day shipping charges to get the part that just snapped when you went to load the car shipped to you in time for your race so you don't 'waste' the time you've locked into taking off from work and the entry fee......should I go on?

[Simon T.]

The "not includings" is far more significant:

The paper towels, brake kleen, bearings, hubs, pressure plates (while you're at it on the clutch), replaced mufflers, bodywork form the newb who t boned you in the corner at the end of the straight when he tried the 1 marker, the replaced windshield from the stone that got thrown up, the replaced master switch that fried on grid and cost you that race, (and the wire and connectors and the special crimp too you got because you thought that was the problem, the fuel filters, the new fuel system because the tank has rust, the blown out tire on the tow vehicle, the gloves and pads for your crew guys, the containers to hold all the spares that go to the track, ....and all the stupid two and one day shipping charges to get the part that just snapped when you went to load the car shipped to you in time for your race so you don't 'waste' the time you've locked into taking off from work and the entry fee......should I go on?

Who wants to buy a Neon?

[Flyinglizard]

I figure the Chumpcar VW cost at $200per hr. The ITB, cost about 300perhr. The tires are most of the varience.
The Dot 300 tread wear rating, Dunlop DZ 101, last about 10 hr on the LF on my 2000# car.
I have around 10 real nice , real world drivers, (from all over the US.) If they dont get to drive, they get a credit at the next race. If they wreck the car, they fix it. Simple. I had my first DNF last week( 16 yrs) in the B car, when a driver tossed the alt/water pump belt and drove it until it stopped moving. I bumped the drivers around into the A car and all had some seat time.
I will next install large warning lights for overhot, and charging system.
The rental rates are usually 850 per seat, for twin 7hr races.( 2 hrs per day), $950 for the 14 hr @ Sebring, (3 hrs)
Fuel is added at about 80gal of 100LL av gas.
The car gets all new front hubs,axles, etc every 20hrs. The pre-prep is about 2- 4 days shop time.
One car, has 4 partners that pay into a fund for tires, repairs, etc.This car is a contender for overall win. The stints are 2hrs. (max time allowed)
One car is a straight rental. Priority is Fun, stints of 1 hr.
The VW has been the cheapest cost per hour of any of the cars that I have had. Parts are cheap and available.
I am scared to do the actual cost accounting. Quick numbers are about $1000 loss per race.
MM

[Knestis]

To Jake's question, that's kind of how it goes...

The problem is that for the team/car owner, almost all of the costs are sunk at that point. Thank goodness we've never had that happen. Well, we DID have it happen when Greg got Miata'd the first time on lap 4 or whatever it was, but Cameron and the guys got us back in after just a few minutes...

That's also why as the owner, my default preference is to go last in the rotation, to help assure that everyone gets some track time just in case. The wacky thing is that, over and over, my co-drivers have elected to put me in FIRST, the thought being that they were less likely to get caught up in the early silliness.

K

[tyler raatz]

[QUOTE=Knestis;317839]To Jake's question, that's kind of how it goes...

The problem is that for the team/car owner, almost all of the costs are sunk at that point. Thank goodness we've never had that happen. Well, we DID have it happen when Greg got Miata'd the first time on lap 4 or whatever it was, but Cameron and the guys got us back in after just a few minutes...

That's also why as the owner, my default preference is to go last in the rotation, to help assure that everyone gets some track time just in case. The wacky thing is that, over and over, my co-drivers have elected to put me in FIRST, the thought being that they were less likely to get caught up in the early silliness.

K[/QUOTE

I was hoping you would answer this for me, thanks.
Kirk is right, before the green ever drops, the car owner is out the entry fee, multiple sets of tires, 150 gal+ fuel, towing and housing expenses, tons of money spent in meticulous prep of the car, etc. It is not cheap to do it right.
So as an owner, I do not offer refunds in the event of an accident. It is important to choose your drivers wisely for the big races, drivers should trust in eachothe to take care of the equipment and make it to the finish. I suppose there could be an agreement amongst the renters that if driver A wads up the car 1st stint out, he partially reimburses drivers B & C. This however would be totaly amongst the renters only and never a part of MY rental agreement.

[JLawton]

While we're on the cost subject, I've added up what I think is a good year budget, although it's horrifying.

I got a little under $10,000 for six races or so and that's not including towing costs, oil changes, extra parts, etc. It includes entry fees, tires, food, gas, brake pads, and that's about it. Does that sound right?

Are you talking an enduro season?

See my note on your other thread. I was able to do a full season for $5K in a 944 when I first started. Was I slow? Hell yeah!! but I was out there having fun and learning. I'd have to look back but I think I had a couple of seasons in my ITB rabbitt for about the same. But I was also lucky I had no major failures or crashes.

You don't EVEN want to know what I spent this past season to win the NARRC championship..............

If you want to do the responsible thing financially? Don't race.......... We're all whacked to be doing this..........

[Simon T.]

Are you talking an enduro season?

See my note on your other thread. I was able to do a full season for $5K in a 944 when I first started. Was I slow? Hell yeah!! but I was out there having fun and learning. I'd have to look back but I think I had a couple of seasons in my ITB rabbitt for about the same. But I was also lucky I had no major failures or crashes.

You don't EVEN want to know what I spent this past season to win the NARRC championship..............

If you want to do the responsible thing financially? Don't race.......... We're all whacked to be doing this..........

No I added that up not even including enduros, that was just six IT races and also included my school weekend and the cost of what else I need to finish the car which isn't much though probably around $300 worth so that didn't really make the price so high. lol

I really don't care about being fast out of the box, I just want to race! I've been trying too long!

Well I'm already semi-irresponsible for sure for even considering it . Sometimes the smart side of my head tries to prevent me from doing things, it probably won't ever win but...

$5k for a season is more reasonable, the only thing that made the price go up was the driver school I'm doing is in Daytona which is a good distance, if I get waived a second school sweet, if not, the next one I've seen is in Homestead...$$$ Road Atlanta is only 45 minutes away from home so that's nothing, I just want to be sure I complete my licensing requirements after school which is two regionals right? Then four if you want a national license?

I always feel there is a lump to go over and then it's easier to plan out. It's the getting the car finished, the schools, etc. that make it sound so hard! Once all that is done I'll sleep in a tent at the track and eat hot dogs all weekend to save some money and race.

[lateapex911]

Hot dogs? Living large, you are! Ramen noodles over an open fire is the food of the young Jedi.

[Simon T.]

Hot dogs? Living large, you are! Ramen noodles over an open fire is the food of the young Jedi.

I've tried to force myself to like Ramen noodles and just cannot do it. Every now and then I can eat them, I have loads of packs just in case times get real hard though.