ITB Sentra - WTF?

[Matt93SE]

Those up here know I have a 240SX coupe 'thing'. Always wanted one. I have seen the dyno sheets on built motors with a Wolf ECU and 'Stretch' header, and the power is class-leading. People who have driven them and SM's tell me they are the best handling cars they have ever driven (with spherical suspension).

When I sold my ITS RX-7, I built an SM for business reasons. Turned it into an ITA car for business reasons. I didn't go with the 240 because nobody could keep them together, not because they can't be fast. Teg? FWD sucks.

If I could buld and own any IT cars in class they would be:

ITR: E46 325 Coupe
ITS: 240Z
ITA: 240SX Coupe
ITB: Corolla GTS
ITC: Datsun 510

what's the common problem with reliability? I have a 4-valve engine so life's a bit different, but it's got 110k miles on it, and it's been a dedicated DE/race car since ~95k or so. Stock internals of course..

[lateapex911]

I chatted with Stretch (Briefly!) on the podium at the ARRC after his ITA loss to Ruck, and he was shaking his head, not pleased. He said: "Man if I thought the ITA race was going to be this hard I would have done the brakes and tuned the car....shit, I thought the SM race was going to be the tough one!"
(That was the year he WALKED the field in SM, only to later find issues with the head, that, IIRC, the builder took blame for.)

At the time, I think Bob was doing some WC races, and decided to do the ARRC ITA race at the last minute. Patullo was there, IIRC, and chated with him a bit about that.
Point being, he didn't always bring his A game.

[Andy Bettencourt]

what's the common problem with reliability? I have a 4-valve engine so life's a bit different, but it's got 110k miles on it, and it's been a dedicated DE/race car since ~95k or so. Stock internals of course..

Your motor is TOTALLY different.

[Chip42]

back to the sentra:

The chassis is a known quantity, thanks to the SE-R there's reasonable parts availability in the aftermarket, and the chassis stuff transfers. the car is stupid light, and they sold them by the boatload, especially here in central FL, so there's a ton of salvage parts to be had and rollers are dirt cheap. the motor makes good power, has a variable timing intake cam, and the drivetrain is very simple and that works well in this situation. shifter is pretty good, and very good with new OEM bushings. like most (all?) nissans, most of the non critical gaskets are RTV by design, which makes for a smaller spares inventory. most of the hard parts carried over into the B14 chassis too, further aiding parts support. the hall effect distributor in the B13 is less prone to failure than the optical setup in the B14, and the B13 has a better rear suspension.

downsides: the rod cap likes to fall off of the #1 cylinder. unfortunately, the hole the loose rod creates on the exhaust side of the motor is obscured by the giant cast alternator / AC bracket. I think we found 4 or 5 of these in the yard before coming upon a "good" bottom end for my old beater, which was out of commission for the same reason. better hardware and checking the torque as maintenance should make this a non issue in service, but it does play havoc on the salvage spare blocks. drum brakes on the rear.

Also the GA16DE is a 16 valve motor, so under the current rules it would be 2380 lbs. But I don't think the 30% "expected" gains are too far out of line for this motor, and I don't want to start a pissing match about the 30% rule.

all told, I think it'd be a good car with minimal effort, and a very good car with development. it'll never be sexy, but neither will a lot of the beaters in ITB.

the Single cam 240sx is a fast, good handling car, but you never know if the race will be longer than the fuse on the motor. I believe that this too could be overcome but I think that those interested in doing so have all moved on.

I generally agree on buy before build, except where I get why you wouldn't (we built 2 IT MR2s from scratch, an ITB del sol, ITS 99 civic Si, and 90 Civic Si for FP).

[Knestis]

>> Dave - I don't speak Honda; if I were going to go with a known quantity I would take the Golf.

The dark side is less dark by the glow of the Check Engine light.

Kidding aside, I think the Nissan would be a very good ITB car.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Back on Topic for me too:

So Earl, the only way this car will be competitive is if it can out-perform it's process power and handle better than everthing in a straight line. I don't see how you can't draw a direct parallel between this car and the Sentra SE-R / NX2000. That car, with ~155whp, is about 75lbs 'light' by the numbers.

I would build it if you were 100% confident that 125whp was possible (5% over the 'expected' 30%). THAT is a butt-load for an ITB car, especially at 2380lbs of process weight.

My presonal recipe for a great IT car is one that HANDLES better than anything else, then try and make process power. Our S2000 is an example of this. I would build a Boxster too. In ITB, I would build a Honda with a DW front if I wasn't such a fanboi of the Corolla GTS (knowing it woudn't be competitive because it can't make process power).

Actually, the best car for me in ITB would be the 924. But only a few guys in the country who have done it so it's an adventure. Honda or VW in ITB is the easy button.

[erlrich]

Back on Topic for me too:

So Earl, the only way this car will be competitive is if it can out-perform it's process power and handle better than everthing in a straight line. I don't see how you can't draw a direct parallel between this car and the Sentra SE-R / NX2000. That car, with ~155whp, is about 75lbs 'light' by the numbers.

I would build it if you were 100% confident that 125whp was possible (5% over the 'expected' 30%). THAT is a butt-load for an ITB car, especially at 2380lbs of process weight.

My presonal recipe for a great IT car is one that HANDLES better than anything else, then try and make process power. Our S2000 is an example of this. I would build a Boxster too. In ITB, I would build a Honda with a DW front if I wasn't such a fanboi of the Corolla GTS (knowing it woudn't be competitive because it can't make process power).

Actually, the best car for me in ITB would be the 924. But only a few guys in the country who have done it so it's an adventure. Honda or VW in ITB is the easy button.

I have to agree with your assessment of the Sentra - and I wasn't aware (hadn't really given it any thought) the GA was a 16 valve, and thus would be saddled with a 30% multiplier. I do believe that for this car to have any chance at being competitive it would need to make a little better than the process power, and at 30% I would be surprised if it did (disclaimer - not a Nissan expert, so I could be dead wrong).

Also guys, remember I said I was looking though the listings and thought this one looked wrong - I never said I wanted to build one...

I also thought the 924 looked like a great car for ITB, but I've heard the p cars can be huge pains in the ass to build, not to mention expensive. I would also think the 200SX (S12) would be a good choice, but the few guys I've heard of who are running them don't seem to be tearing up the tracks.

And now that I look at it - is it just me, or does the 200SX also look like it's a little porky? The number I'm finding on the CA20E (which is a SOHC) say it makes 115/108 - the same HP and less TQ than the Golf? Are the Nissans getting no love from the SCCA?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Are the Nissans getting no love from the SCCA?

In a nutshell, no. Beck when they used their dartboard for weight, they saddled some cars with FUD weight. Those cars never hit the radar in the GR because nobody was running them and there was little knowledge. Run what you want through at 25 or 30% based on 4 per cyl in ITB (bleh), add 50 for DW, multiply by .98 for FWD and see what spits out. I bet you could get 4-5 Nissans redone next month.

[Matt93SE]

Are the Nissans getting no love from the SCCA?

I'm beginning to think they're being shunned by SCCA in favor of anything German or Mazda.