Ken- are you racing an Audi??? If so contact me, been through this and I can tell you it's not worth it... I would love to see it fixed but I have learned to just enjoy the car for what it is and have fun racing for a podium
Raymond
Ken- are you racing an Audi??? If so contact me, been through this and I can tell you it's not worth it... I would love to see it fixed but I have learned to just enjoy the car for what it is and have fun racing for a podium
Raymond
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
I bet the real reason our President resigned was in protest of the CRB interfering with the process!
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Hi Ken !
I had taken this up in the past, after the Blethen's did . This is well known fact through out the world the HP of the KX is 110. (( owners manual , Factory Manual, and I managed to get my hands on some internal advertising bits from Audi all stating 110hp))...Except a privileged few have seen, heard of , or mentioned a "secret Audi microchife" saying otherwise.(que the "copters"!) And have processed the Audi using inaccurate information. Henceforth the extra weight.
I am optimistically pessimistic that the Audi will ever change.. considering that it was mentioned politics are also involved....
(sorry all I saw the word Audi and couldn't help myself.... )
<back to lurking mode>
John VanDenburgh
VanDenburgh Motorsports
ITB Audi Coupe GT
Holy shit this ITB debacle is legendary.
How much money would you Audi folks need to put push the cars off a cliff so this topic will disappear? It's clear the ITAC isn't going to doing anything about it, but if the price was right maybe I could help out.
I'm mostly kidding, at least about the cliff and the money.
We reduced the weight on that car once, if I recall correctly. The documentation on stock hp is contradictory although most evidence is 110. That said, none of the owners/drivers (all of whom I like) would produce IT build dyno sheets which we could have used to help solve the problem. This was in marked contrast to the MR2 situation where I think we had 5 or 6 IT build dyno sheets to use to show the car couldn't hit a certain target percentage.
In other words, and with all due respect to the Audi drivers, we didn't get much help from them except to complain. While their cars were competitive on track, which didn't help the case.
The amount of time the ITAC spent on the ITB Audi v. the number of these cars actually running on track is insane.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
That's got to be true. Seems I've been reading about ITB on this site for five years.
What's the SCCA scairt of with fixing these cars according to the process? What is the WORST that could happen? Some people race their Audi Coupes and win a regional race the SCCA doesn't care about anyhow?
Scary stuff.
Last edited by Ron Earp; 10-17-2013 at 07:26 PM.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
No clue and I have no plans to find out. Stock I still think it came with 110hp... doesn't really matter what I got for power out of it. No-one that drives an audi is or ever has asked for an "extra" reduction in the weight like the mr2. The process is the process, that's all we wanted, still not sure why no-one understands that. As said before though, I have to trust that the info the ITAC has showing the higher hp is correct and live with that answer. I will never agree but I will, and did, accept it.
Stephen
Ron, but as you can see above, Stephen feels they used the wrong power in classing the car, as does John. I don't know John, and don't know if he did a lot of dyno work in his short ownership of the car, but I am not surprised that Stephen says he doesn't know. I never saw any source from anyone while I was on the ITAC that stated 120 stock. But I know that the CRB didn't care about the 110 rating, they cared about 2 things: that the car sat on the front row of the ARRC (but neither finished and therefor, no tech teardown), and the displacement, which meant it MUST have more power or torque, so it's a mistake to 'just go with 110".
If i were an owner of the car, and I saw other cars get Processed at face value, but my car had 170 pounds plopped on it "just cuz'", I'd feel screwed. People don't like being screwed...in comparison with others of equal standing, so, you, you're going to hear about it for awhile.
The MR2 thing is even worse, and I was involved in that too, mistakenly doing bad math, (ANd having nobody on the con call catch me...or say anything) on it, then the utter refusal to fix it....at 30%! Even the reduction, which came years later, is still more than the 5-6 dyno sheets Jeff points to as the 'proof' needed to budge the classing.
So the MR2 guys, who have been fighting for a fair shake for yeeeeears, (Car was in ITA back in what, 02?) feel screwed too, both by the numbers and by the excessive amount of time to even get to those numbers. It's one thing to look at a classing like yours, Ron, see it's weight, and know either you can't hit the weight, (or it's set high by Process), but decide to run the car anyway, either because you think it can run despite the weight, or you just like it, (or whatever), but its another thing entirely to own and run a car*, THEN have to move classes, sell wheels, buy new wheels, and the weight be ridiculous. Well, that smarts.
Now, to be clear, neither of these are the ITACs fault, per se'. No, it's largely the fault of the CRB, who decided to draw lines in the sand, and support wacky non Process deals** .... If two members of the CRB, and the CRB/ITAC weren't involved, I am convinced things would be very different for those cars.
* and the car was once upon a time ok in ITA, but classings that post dated it were made far more aggressively, and, like the RX-7, it was rendered uncompetitive.
**Jeff, that multi valve ITB thing predated your time on the ITAC, and IIRC, you were traveling when the MR2 30% thing went down, as was Andy, and I was running the call from a hotel room in Watkins Glen and didn't have my usual 3 monitors worth of info up in front of me, and flat blew the classing based on looking at the wrong calc....
Last edited by lateapex911; 10-18-2013 at 01:32 AM.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Deleted. The situation that is the ITB debacle is an embarrassment to the club, but entirely expected.
Last edited by Ron Earp; 10-18-2013 at 06:32 AM.
The perception is worse than teh reality. I'd say the MR2 is an example of the process ultimately working. The 30% adder for ITB multivavle was BS, but ultimately it got fixed and while 20% is higher than the best dyno sheets we've seen for the MR2 it's not out of the range of possibility. It's conservative, as it should be.
There is an internal Audi document showing 120 hp for the Audi. It exists. No one can explain it. The resulting weight is not based on teh 120 hp but rather on a very rough what we know on actual gain. Not perfect at all but it worked, as the car is not hopelessly outclassed and in fact is a front runner.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
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