ITAC News.

[Greg Amy]

Yes it would, but it would also be interesting to see how many drivers have left the category and run exclusively in LP prod or STL at Nationals / Majors.

I can name a few east of the Mississippi (and sometimes the circumstances, such as a destroyed IT car, influenced the decision), but I'd be surprised if the nationwide total was any more than just a blip on the radar.

Ditto. From what I've seen, attending events and intently watching results, there are very few, if any, people that have left IT for STL. The class has allowed select IT competitors to also compete in STL, but I honestly can't think of any that made the swap*. Hell, SM has lost more competitors to STL than ITx...

- GA

* Gregg, feeling a finger pointing my way. Not so. I was done with ITx after my NX adventures, as I was unhappy with the outlook of classifications of the two cars I had a choice with at the time (ITA NX2000 and ITS Integra GSR). Good or bad, agree or disagree with that point of view, I had already made the conscious decision to discontinue any serious participation in the category. This "STL thing" just dropped in my lap at a most advantageous time...

[Gregg]

* Gregg, feeling a finger pointing my way. Not so. I was done with ITx after my NX adventures, as I was unhappy with the outlook of classifications of the two cars I had a choice with at the time (ITA NX2000 and ITS Integra GSR). Good or bad, agree or disagree with that point of view, I had already made the conscious decision to discontinue any serious participation in the category. This "STL thing" just dropped in my lap at a most advantageous time...

Actually, I was talking specifically about Kirk. I could be wrong but I venture that his decision to go exclusively to STL was made far easier knowing that getting back on track would require a new race car.

[mossaidis]

There's a price to just getting up and building another car, let alone keeping the same chassis and moving to another class. I think that's whay there has not been this ... exodus. I personally have too much invested in the Civic and would not consider changing car/class until I feel I have gone full circle with it. In Kirk's case, he had a clear opportunity to change class given the current structure... IT is NOT going National. Should I have been in the same situation, I would have done the same. So, the out-go rate from IT may not big at this point, but over time, folks who are passionate about the build/ease/dependability of IT and wanting to compete at a true national level will be disappointed and will need to move to another class, sadly.

[Greg Amy]

Actually, I was talking specifically about Kirk. I could be wrong but I venture that his decision to go exclusively to STL was made far easier knowing that getting back on track would require a new race car.

He'll confirm, but his move to STU was more about a new opportunity with Cameron's Jetta TDI program coupled to the destruction of Pablo more than anything else. Had either one of those not happened I suggest Kirk would still be in - or headed back to - ITB. - GA

[lateapex911]

He'll confirm, but his move to STU was more about a new opportunity with Cameron's Jetta TDI program coupled to the destruction of Pablo more than anything else. Had either one of those not happened I suggest Kirk would still be in - or headed back to - ITB. - GA

It's true that outside circumstances often are the catalyst for change.

Greg speaks the truth about his situation. But thats Greg, he steps in gold poo all the damn time, LOL. Also, he had a pretty short list of one or two cars he would race. Although he did seriously consider an ITA Miata effort, but his partner made the mistake of doing a realistic budget.
So Greg stuck with what he had and could convert fairly easily to STL, and it just so (lucky gold poo) happened that it is one of the select few cars that has a good chance of success in STL.

But make no mistake, that classes ability to go to the Runoffs is a MAJOR draw for Greg.

My car, a first gen RX-7, is at the end of it's life in terms of rebuild-able parts so it was time to say goodbye.
But were I to get back into the racing pool, I'd look very seriously at non IT categories simply because of the National status.
I love the IT ruleset. Not too much, not too little. But I'm not a fan of the limitations, and there is a lot of financial pull to run where you can defray costs. As a RWD guy, I'd think hard about LP Prod.

[Greg Amy]

But make no mistake, that classes ability to go to the Runoffs is a MAJOR draw for Greg.

Yes, but...that was because I wanted an excuse to drive Road America.

Ironically, after 2013 that draw is no more (current rumor is the Runoffs is going to Laguna Seca for 2014). And the "Majors" program requires extensive Eastern Seaboard travel (Daytona to Watkins Glen) to contest a championship. Ergo, even if the Runoffs were at a reasonably-attainable and -attractive race track in 2014 (such as at Road Atlanta, where God has always intended them to be, even despite the 1990's destruction of His temple), I'd actually use the Regional path to qualify for the event.

Having done both Regional and National racing over the last quarter-century, I've always found the Regional events to be more competitive, more enjoyable, less stressful, and a lot more sociable. And I suggest those who feel that Improved Touring needs to go National in order to try to attain some elusive goal should look back at the quality of the grass on their own side of the fence.

GA, who's back to Regional racing in '14...

[Knestis]

If you look back at some of my arguments FOR national status, you'll see that I explained that I would continue to run regionals as well - or more likely a mix of both. Part of the benefit of national status, to my way of thinking, is systemic rather than immediately personal.

For example, what would the current resale value of any given IT car in the IT.com classifieds be if it were eligible for Nationals? Higher or lower than is the case right now...? Would it be easier to sell or harder?

K

[Greg Amy]

I understand your systemic argument, but...

...what would the current resale value of any given IT car in the IT.com classifieds be if it were eligible for Nationals?

A straw man argument, as net-net it would be no different. One can argue that IT cars could be "worth" more on resale were the class National, but the costs to prepare them to that attractive National level would be higher. So, really, no difference.

Same goes for Andy's popularity - yet circular - argument, "POPULARITY raises the cost." He's right, but a class does not become popular BECAUSE it's National; in fact, due to participation requirements, a class will not become National until it is popular.

Or until you invite in Spec Miatas to double dip... ...but be careful what you ask for...."one should be loyal to the nightmare of their choice"...

- GA

[Z3_GoCar]

.... As a RWD guy, I'd think hard about LP Prod.

Jake,

LP is actually a misnomer, it's prep levels 1 and 2. Prep level 2 is what used to be LP, but in my case it's almost exactly what I get in STU ( 12:1 compression, 0.5" valve lift, stock intake manifold/TB, but no dry sump or h-beam rods). So N/A STU and EP level 2 cars should have the same power (no suprise there).

[Xian]

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that more folks with Civic/CRX/Integra's haven't jumped into STL builds. It's an easy motor swap to a class that "fixes" some of the inherent weak parts of the cars (brakes) and should reduce operating/consumables costs (lighter car, bigger brakes).

[Knestis]

The Jetta was a great opportunity and made my final decision for me but I wasn't going to build a new car for IT once it became clear Pablo was no more. I REALLY miss that car, and the well-attended of those races - MARRS, Festival, ARRC - but we've seen the golden days of the category at this point. PERHAPS not ITR but in the slower classes, certainly.

K

EDIT - Had Pablo NOT been squashed, I'd still be there but only until it was new tub time.

[Andy Bettencourt]

On IT going National. I wrote this 5 years ago and I still feel the same way.

What is broken that I see this fixing? My desire to build, maintain and race a car with the ruleset and cars I think are the best fit for me - for a SCCA National Championship. Yes, I can go National racing in Prod, GT, SM, SRF, etc...but those classes don't interest me as much. I like to upgrade - but not to the tune of Prod, so IT is perfect for me.

As far as 'going National' raising the cost of being competitive in IT - that is a misguided sentiment. POPULARITY raises the cost. The more people, the more competition, the more money. If National status raises the popularity of IT (which I think is inevitable), then costs will rise for some areas.

Opinions will vary on the affects - and that is because in some areas nothing will change in terms of money and prep level. Some areas will see an influx of full-prep cars...and the affects of THAT is also debatable.

You could easliy make the arguement that if the 'heavy hitter' in some of the lesser subscribed pockets goes National, it may actually INCREASE regional competition because the perception of that door opening for the 'average racer' could be there as that HH leaves for a different group of fish to fry.

What is best for the class Nationally is a tough call IMHO.