May 2012 Fastrack

[Knestis]

...The ITAC really can't do much of anything within our own bylaws unless you guys send us data. IT is a power to weight category and without real power outputs, most stuff is a somewhat statistically driven stab in the dark. turns out it's a pretty god stab much of the time, but when it isn't, it can be fixed with input. this is true if your power is high or low. ...

It's getting to be ancient history but this isn't quite what the framers of the Process had in mind. Not all decisions should require "data" in the form it's come to be thought of (i.e., dyno outputs).

A stab in the dark is close enough for what we do and I'd hate to think that decisions might be paralyzed because we're afraid to get out the knife while we're waiting for someone to find us a laser scalpel. Do we currently have any requests in limbo in this regard...?

K

[JeffYoung]

It's getting to be ancient history but this isn't quite what the framers of the Process had in mind. Not all decisions should require "data" in the form it's come to be thought of (i.e., dyno outputs).

A stab in the dark is close enough for what we do and I'd hate to think that decisions might be paralyzed because we're afraid to get out the knife while we're waiting for someone to find us a laser scalpel. Do we currently have any requests in limbo in this regard...?

K

No, nothing is held up in in large part due to the 25% default rule. If we have no data, and there is nothing of substance in the form of technical information, etc. otherwise, then we default to 25% until data does appear.

[Chip42]

KK, the point was that we make a default 25% classification without good reason to do otherwise. Data helps us justify making a change to the default, and there's also triggers like you know so that obvious over/underdogs get looked at. We do our own research when we feel there reason to do so.

The real point though, as you and other "framers" have made clear in the past, is that an oddball car is hard for us to make good judgements on. We need to know prep level and output to make judgements in those cases. When a borgwald is in P1 everywhere in the country then we have a reason to worry and look into it. If something like a tr8 shows up, it up to the sadist running the thing to make it clear that reasonable efforts are or are not getting it to the ballpark. WE can't just know that.

I'll be damned if I'm going to sit on an itac that makes adjustments off the cuff because they feel right. I need some data, and with the nature of our rules and some of the cars we have classified, that information is often not really out there.

But you knew that already.

[Knestis]

Thanks for reaffirming that, guys. I was worried about "can't do much of anything within our own bylaws unless you guys send us data." That seemed kind of extreme.

K

[JeffYoung]

No worries.

You guys set up a great system. It works. It really does.

[benspeed]

I know that I'm guilty of bitching about a few items but rest asssured, the ITAC has created a fantastic program for Improved Touring.

Somebody mentioned what's going on with NASA GT and the power to weight measured by the dyno...that's turned into a giant sinkhole for cash. Friends who went to that program are now dusting themselves off and realizing they've poured huge cubic dollars and have no real way of policing. Dyno's are are easy to fool and some smart guys have cooked up some pretty intricate and crafty ways to do it (not that the dyno is at the track much anyway...)

[lateapex911]

I know that I'm guilty of bitching about a few items but rest asssured, the ITAC has created a fantastic program for Improved Touring.

Somebody mentioned what's going on with NASA GT and the power to weight measured by the dyno...that's turned into a giant sinkhole for cash. Friends who went to that program are now dusting themselves off and realizing they've poured huge cubic dollars and have no real way of policing. Dyno's are are easy to fool and some smart guys have cooked up some pretty intricate and crafty ways to do it (not that the dyno is at the track much anyway...)

Yup-
SOUNDS good, until you think about even sorta hard. We've had some discussions here about it, and NASA supporter shout that it's the only way. Honestly, I shake my head, and i've probably been less then diplomatic, but it's just DUMB to think that a dyno...even at the track is going to ensure parity.
A key issue that people fail to realize is a subconscious one. We self police. IF I cheat, I'm actively screwing the RX-7 who finishes behind me. I know him. He's loaned me parts.
However, if the officials come to check us all, well, THATS another story. Subconsciously, it's now us vs them, not us vs us. I always chuckle when guys in NASCAR are apologetic for cheating. Ha! of COURSE you're trying to get away with something! you'd BETTER be, because everyone else is too.

The dyno thing is asking for cheating. Without thinking hard at all, I can think of a dozen ways to fool the dyno, with an ECU or without. Soooo easy.

Bottom line: sealed engines