RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
Somewhat forgot about this but guess it's still in progress, 13 plus months later. Still never saw anything in print about the Accord weight adjustment. lol
Mon, April 9, 2012 9:00:19 PMSCCA Letter #4229 Update
From:"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Dave Gran,
Your letter has been reviewed by the IT committee, and a recommendation has been made to the CRB. The CRB will review your letter and the IT committee's recommendation on their next conference call. Your letter details are below:
Letter #4229
Title: Multivalve Adder
Request: Eliminate the default 30% gain above stock horsepower in IT trim for multivalve engines when processing ITB and ITC cars. Instead, assume a gain of 35% above stock horsepower in IT trim while still allowing the ITAC to use protocol in the documented ITAC Operations Manual to adjust accordingly. I see no way in which this rule makes sense especially given that the design benefits are already factored into stock HP. If after further discussions the ITAC votes that a multivalve adder should still be in place, it needs to be further defined and utilized. As an amendment to the Operations Manual, define what multivalve engines this increased 5% applies to – 3 valve and/or 4 valve engines. Additionally, if the multivalve truly deserves an automatic increase in expected gains the factor needs to be applied to ITR, ITS, and ITA even if on a sliding scale. There is no reason
why a multivalve ITB car gains 5% by this design yet an ITA car has no advantage.Thank you for taking the time to review and discussing this request.
Thank you,
CRB
Dave Gran
Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing
I too wrote a letter so long ago I'd actually forgotten about it. It requested that a 4 valve 125hp car in ITB carry the same factor (25%) that a 4valve 125hp car in ITA has. 25%.
It has been sent to the CRB with a ITAC recommendation.
I assume it was held up in the larger ITB dissection.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Typo. But I quickly sent communications to the ITAC and CRB to ensure they were aware of the correct 25% percentage I meant to type. Although I wouldn't be totally shocked it if gets rejected with that as an excuse as that got lost (I did get written confirmation that they received the correct percentage.)
Page 10, post 184 of this thread is when I submitted that and the Accord.
Last edited by gran racing; 04-10-2012 at 08:53 AM.
Dave Gran
Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing
John, manual's still sitting on my floor -- sorry about that.
We've discussed the issue with the Audi stock hp and don't have a solution yet. The 110 hp is in the manual, the 120 (I think) is in the internal Audi document. Not clear either way.
Dave/Jake/Bill:
I think most of us on the ITAC do not prefer the 30% multivavle adder in ITB. At the same time, it's there, it's in the Ops Manual, and its been used to process cars for a while now. For consistencies sake, we will not revisit it.
HOWEVER - I think all of us will take a harder look at a multivalve motor in B to see if the 30% makes sense as a default than we would with a 25% default motor in any other clause.
Last, we made the recommendation to add (100?) weight to the Accord and I believe it passed and was in Fastrack. We've already gotten letters to change it back.....
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
when i submitted letter # 1333, the accord was 2550 #'s. it is now 2650.
i just got an update regarding my evap emissions letter. i responded that updates to me are no longer necessary since i am no longer a member.
perhaps not 100% accurate since i intend to be a weekend member at a couple of races this year and must comply with the rules for the class i enter.
1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL
Re: the 30% thing, I'm one of the biggest critics around, having the poster child car for it's failing: the MR2. I never miss an opportunity to express my displeasure with it on comittee, and I have been equally loud here when the topic was being raised.
that said, it's a happy coincidence that MANY of the cars run with that number are either making their 30% (or higher) process number, or have enough other "mojo" working for them that they are doing well regardless. same is true for many "default" 25% cars accross IT land, many of which are doing very well despite not matching perfectly with their number. there's a lot of variables at play, and the process is intentionally simple, so it doesnt' have a lot of inputs.
for now, political winds are not with a change to the 30% rule. I'm not happy about that but it's the case. luckily we do have the presence of mind, now, to really dig in any case where this number would be applied as a default to make sure that it "makes sense". maybe fortunately, we haven't had occasion to do so recently.
Last edited by ajmr2; 04-10-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Art Jaso
Former 1989 Toyota MR2 #55 ITB
DC Region SCCA
DC Region Board of Directors
Coordinator of Racers Helping Racers Fund
http://www.racershelpingracers.com/
PDX/TT Committee Member
PDX Co-Chief of Grid
PDX Chief Technical Inspector
SCCA Pit Marshall
SCCA Pace Car
SCCA F & C
Producer of "Racing Summit Point" Video
http://vimeo.com/67177646
People are passionate about IT, hence the debates. Can be frustrating but a healthy sign in many ways I think.
On the 30% in ITB adder, I actually think (and I disagree with it as well) that its potential harmful impact has been mitigated pretty well.
I think this committee is going to look long and hard at any multivalve car in ITB before it gets the 30%, and we have data out there to support a different decision we will use it. Plus, by sheer luck, most cars (other than the MR2, and a few others) do actually make 30% with a multivalve motor. So the impact has not been as great as it otherwise might be although I agree the MR2 has had it rough from the start.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
Also, I failed to thank you Jeff and Chip, in my earlier post, for hanging with us and shining some sunlight into the 'back room'. Much appreciated.
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
No Art, I just happened to receive an e-mail that my request to review it from more than a year ago is being reviewed by the CRB. I truly don't care about it anymore although still think it's dumb. While I may have confidence in one ITAC group, who knows about the next and as said it's in the books. The debate is done, moving on.So after more than a year, almost 300 posts and SEVENTEEN THOUSAND views just on this thread, we're still debating this???
Dave Gran
Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing
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