ITAC News.

[marka]

Howdy,

It aint the car. Cheap cars are everywhere.

This one, at least for me as a "soon to be roadracer".

My overriding concern is running / consumable costs, not the costs of the car itself. I'm pretty well established, have a pretty good job, etc. And I'm _still_ worried about the $1k/weekend I'm figuring I'm going to be paying to run a "not at the front" effort.

If there were a way via the rules to control those costs, I'd say to go for it. But I'm not sure that's at all possible.

Mark

[chuck baader]

One of the things considered is tires per race. Realize that you normally buy tires at the first of the year (two sets for me) and run those tires all year. Subtract that from the race budget needed every race weekend. The normal costs for the race weekend are entry, gas (race car and tow vehicle), food, and lodging. Gas, of course, is dependent on how far you travel. Lots of people camp at the track so that cost can be saved. What ever works for you to mitigate costs. Chuck

[JeffYoung]

Excellent post. Dead spot on.

Look to where regional racing programs ARE working, and identify what makes them attractive to participants, so successful...

** Regional class car counts show that IT continues to be among the most popular category in the nation. That strongly suggests that the IT rules are not the problem.

** The people who stick with the game will tell you (I think) that they like rules continuity, deep competition, fair application of the regs, and hanging out with fun, like-minded people. These people define what should be the core membership, so listen to what they have to say and continue to give them what they like.

** History has demonstrated that at any given point in time, more than half of the club racers on the track are destined to leave after just a couple of seasons, regardless of what the club does. It's something of an over-generalization but they tent to NOT be like the core group above - they don't assimilate, they want to win (so often pick poorly subscribe classes), and their hobby ADD will have them looking at boats before their engine needs a rebuild. We can't retain this population so shouldn't try too hard, and above all we must not let them - and their particular "I think it should be like this" personal desires - drive the rules.

** The world of "racing" has changed a LOT in the past 20 years. There are literally hundreds of options around the nation, "racing" has become much more accessible, and in some ways barriers to entry have fallen. HPDEs have evolved from carefully controlled track days to pseudo head-to-head races, with in-car timers, trophies, and very expensive hardware. Since the national office has been ineffectual in building an HPDE program, every region *MUST* have a plan for integrating some easy pathway to entry into its racing program - perhaps by actively partnering with an established local HPDE provider - or anticipate having new racers buy their first rock from some other dealer.

** In terms of classification, there are always going to be people who want to go racing with a car they already have, that doesn't fit the established rule set. It's a terrible idea to add new classes in response to onesy-twosy folks that turn up but we need to strike a balance in accommodations. Every region MUST have a catch-all (e.g., ITE, SPO) class structure in place to net anything that comes along, that meets the GCR's general safety expectations. (If I were comp director, I'd try having a regional-only, non-points category, with maybe five classes indexed to a "really good lap" for a corresponding IT class car, with lap time breakouts. Go faster than the index and you're out and into the next-faster class next time.)

** It's not a universal problem - some regions get it right - but any that is having trouble retaining drivers who do commit to doing a school had better look hard at the culture of their organization. One key person (e.g., registrar, tech inspector, steward, whoever) can be enough of an frustration to chase people away. I've met DOZENS over the years who honestly believe that their job is to screen the unworthy... These folks tend to be the "old guard," who don't understand that young people expect a customer-service orientation, a more egalitarian culture, and less officious assholenness. Every region that has these individuals knows who they are, and someone needs to get them straightened out.

** It's an extension of the last issue but rules MUST be applied equitably. If a new racers perceives that he is being held to a different standard than the old guard's buddies, he will get frustrated and quit. See above; get the culture fixed.

Point is, there are a LOT of things a region can do, none of which include pining for the day when a set of OTS KONI reds, cut-down springs, and a mail-order header would make a competitive IT car.

K

[Harvey]

I suppose the sentiment here is that the ITB Volvo can't compete in ITB anymore.

Let's ask a few questions.

1. When was the last time anyone did any exhaust development on the Volvo? Has anyone talked to Burns about header design? From my experience, most "accepted" IT header and exhaust design thinking up until a few years ago was not dead on. No merge collectors, no reversionary cones, too big primaries, etc.

2. Are ITB Volvos still running "low" spring rates or has development been done using new (and expensive) dampers that can handle much higher (500+ plus) spring rates?

3. REM'ed the rear end gears?

And so on. While I still see Volvos up front, I am fairly confident that with the infusion of the right amount of time and money almost any car in a power/weight balanced class can run up front.

Jeff

The answer to all your questions is YES both fairly recently and LONG before you even knew what IT was, although I would find #3 sort of questionable.

[seckerich]

I figured I would wait for you to respond Les, before I pointed out the obvious.

#3 Remember the word "any" rear gear ratio that fits in the stock unmodified housing means "any".

[JeffYoung]

The point is that the idea of a 100% max build IT car is usually a myth. There is always something you can do to improve the car.

The 142 is or will be "on" power to weight for the class. It has advantages (good torque for the class). If it can't compete with newer cars the issue is either (a) lack of continued development of care or (b) lack of continued development of driver or (c) fundamental things wrong with the car that we can't fix under the IT ruleset.

Given some of the cars we have seen run up front, I think category (c) is small and given the Volvo's history of being very competitive I am confident the Volvo does not fit in it. Eric Curran's famous "hop in Dad's car and break the Lime Rock track record" seems to support that.

My own personal opinion is that development on the 142 has mostly stopped due to the perception that there is nothing left to do. I think that is incorrect, for any car.

[Harvey]

Assumptions are what amaze me.

[JeffYoung]

Who is continuing to develop ITB Volvos?

Help me out, seriously. What are they doing? What are they trying?

One of the most enlightening conversations I had with a front running Volvo driver involved the use of data acquisition. He wasn't using it and claimed it was not "in the spirit of IT" or something.

With Traqmate units now down to what, $1,000 or something, that's a difficult attitude to fathom.

[lateapex911]

Which assumptions?

The assumptions that rear gears can be REM'ed??

Or that serious developments isn't going on?

I can tell you that in my travels from New Hampshire to Ohio to Summit to VIR to Road Atlanta to Lime Rock to Watkins Glen I haven't seen the development in Volvos that I've seen from the Mosers, or the huffmasters, etc. maybe I haven't seen everything, but I can say I've seen the guys who are the squeaky wheels and their houses have considerable glass in them

[Knestis]

Sorry, Les. I agree with Jeff, and if the Volvo owners maxed out their development "LONG before [Jeff] even knew what IT was," then they haven't used all of the tools in the current toolbox.

Further - and I confess I'm making an inference here - if the general preparation quality of the Volvos I've raced against is suggestive of the attention to detail that's gone into their engineering and development, then they still have room to improve.

K

[Harvey]

I will be the first to say that there is ALWAYS more to find with any car. The development work that has gone into the Volvo's over the years I feel is a lot more than most here know.

The cars are OLD and most folk's that were serious about running them have moved on to other things and other cars.

Kirk, I take that to mean that the prep level of my car was not up to snuff in your eyes.

[Knestis]

I don't remember ever actually looking at your B car, Les. I may be getting old but I can't remember ever racing against you...

I wasn't blown away by the MARRS examples I've seen. Moore's car (I looked at it at the SIC a few years back) was just OK but maybe I expected some real work of art, given its rep.

K

[Harvey]

You may actually be correct about not racing against me.

The thing with Sam's car is I suppose it ain't always got to be the prettiest thing on the block. I suppose that is the thing that kinda gets me wound up is when folk's just assume that the car hasn't been developed due to the way it looks.

The Volvo's as I said before are OLD and like most everything in the SCCA today that is not what is needed or for that matter wanted, and that goes for people as well as cars so life moves on.

I just hope that there are enough folks around with the interest and fortitude to be around as long as either one of us to continue.

[Knestis]

Old drivers can drive newer cars. I chose the MkIII Golf specifically because it was in the sweet spot between too new (so pricy to get into) and too old to be easy to find parts for. There will come a time when it's no longer cost effective to keep it on the track. I need to recognize that reality and plan for it.

K

[Harvey]

I'm glad for you

[JoshS]

I'm getting into this conversation a couple of days late, I guess.

I have always been on board with the "rules can't control costs" question and so the people here who have pointed out that the most expensive part of a race weekend doesn't have anything to do with the prep rules are spot on.

And those who point out that it takes a lot of money just to race at all (safety gear, consumables, and especially travel costs) are correct too. Which is one reason why the average age of racers is fairly high, it takes a while to have that kind of cash available to throw it away at a race weekend.

But ... why is "the other club" apparently able to do better than the SCCA in the face of those two realities? They apply to any racing club, not just ours. I don't know the answer, but it's become a competitive playing field and the SCCA needs to compete.

Which is why I appreciate Raymond's post here:

We need to keep or go back to having 1 or 2 entry level classes and we need to recognize different speeds require different levels of safety equipment... I know this IS something drag racing recognizes.

One last thing that we could recognize is... Designate "beginner classes" with not only less safety equipment but also significantly lower entry fees. Put a age 30 and under or year (3yr) limit (on the entry fees) what ever comes later to help get people into the sport in an affordable way.

I think when the economy comes back, racing in general will attract more people and therefore all of the clubs will do a little better. But to compete, the SCCA needs to have more outside-the-box thinking like Raymond's. I'm not sure if these particular suggestions are the right ones but it's good to be thinking that way.

My one suggestion: run-whatcha-brung classes are definitely a good way to get entry-level drivers. Most people get into it based on an emotional attachment to a car they already have ... they need to be able to experience racing in that car, and then when they get hooked, buy a car that they can go win with. But to hook them in their original car, they need to be able to at least "smell" the pointy end. ITE (at least my region's ITE, which allows literally anything) doesn't get them that, because we have 400hp 2400lb cars in our ITE. There probably need to be a handful of run-whatcha-brung classes to allow people's first car's to get somewhere close. Maybe do it bracket-style or something. When people get hooked, then they can move to a class with a rigid set of prep rules and a more equal playing field.

Just thinking out loud ...

[JLawton]

We are talking about the same model Volvo that runs up here in the north east?? The very competitive north east? Where the Volves win frequently?? Am I missing something??

I can honestly say that in the 5 years I've been in ITA the prep level has increased dramatically across the board. And it's insane how far it's come in the 10+ years I've been in IT. I was running times in ITA that would have won EVERY ITS race 10 years ago.....

[Knestis]

Letter is not going to popular.

Take It back to its original purpose and stop granting prodcar type allowances or roll the current cars into LP prod/ST and drop the IT classes.

Sorry - can we go back to the second clause of the above...? What benefit would consolidation like that provide? I suppose IT drivers could do Nationals but...

K

[RacerBill]

Sorry - can we go back to the second clause of the above...? What benefit would consolidation like that provide? I suppose IT drivers could do Nationals but...

K

I'm with K here. My old Shelby was classed in ITB, F prod - limited prep, E prod - full prep, or GT3. That's an example of what we have now. Chose how much you want to spend and go racing! Rolling IT into Prod would cost us more money, and make it more difficult for someone to start racing.

Want to have classes with very little car prep? Resurrect Showroom Stock! I said car prep, not the lowest price for the base car!

We could also look at how to get some newer cars classed in IT (like that has never been suggested before).

[jhooten]

Class competition. Instead of 2 STU, 1 ITS, 6 ITA, maybe an ITB and 1 ITC Just running around the track for the hell of it (except for the ITA guys) you actually have a 10 to 12 cars in one class actually racing each other.