Track Time Vs. Laps?

[StephenB]

I can't imagine any track gives a discount if we end early. Drivers, Regions and Clubs are paying track rental for the track time not the amount of laps we do. With that being said most races I have attended in recent years don't take advantage of what we are really paying for. Some have ended well over an Hr. early. From my guess we are paying at minimum 2K per hr!


What would you rather see:

Timed races
This could utilize the entire day that we are paying for. This could cause some classes to get less laps because of an accident and if a race is 30min that includes cleanup time. Everyone gets the same amount of TIME on track... GT1, FA down to SS, IT. No matter the speed we all get the same track Time. (GT1 and F would obviously get more laps...)

Specified # of laps
This could allow us to leave early since a built in clean-up time is usually accounted for. Everyone gets the same amount of laps on track... GT1, FA down to SS, IT. No matter the speed we all get the same track LAPS. (Not time)


Not looking for an argument but I am interested in your opinions for or against either idea.

Thanks,
Stephen Blethen

[CRallo]

That caught your eye too uh? That mention in another post about the workers...

[Knestis]

All things considered, I think a timed race approach is better. It helps the entire day stay on schedule, we know based on when we start when we will end (so can conserve or beat our equipment appropriately), and it's equitable.

Seems like "clean up time" has to be allowed for in the day's schedule - between races - rather than allocated TO race times, though. On the other hand, if the OBSC (old British sports cars) classes want to break and cause yellows, the time spent circulating slowly comes off of their ticket.

K

[joeg]

Very much track dependent.

The Glen is a horror show for black flags and in-session cleanups that cause havoc to any schedule--laps or timed.

[CRallo]

I can't say what the right answer is, but it KILLS me whenever track time goes unused!

[Flyinglizard]

Most other sanction bodies use the time on track for each group, just like a DE weekend. Every pro race does. ( due to TV time )
Great idea.

[itracer]

As a Steward and a driver (within the last 5 years and hopefully coming back this year) I would like to add so perspective from the tower. Please take all of this with whatever grain of salt you like. Regions operate differently, so I speak only for myself and what I have seen in the Northeast.

By maximizing the track time with time vs. laps, you threaten to shorten the later races even more. If there is a long cleanup between races you have to start clipping time off of each of the remaining races or the last group will get screwed the most. If you want to prevent this, then we have to build in extra time at the end of the day – same issue as laps.

Currently; if there is a red flag or black flag all, we have the option of stopping the clock to ensure that you get as much of a race as possible.

As a driver, I prefer laps over time. If I want to race for a period of time, I will race enduros. These are sprint races, their purpose is to see who can get to the finish line the fastest. If you keep moving the finish line, then it loses that appeal – in my humble opinion.

There is no perfect solution. The timelines I have managed in the tower are fluid and we do try to maximize the use of the track. If the schedule in the morning runs well, we will extend the afternoon sessions.


Stephen – if you want more track time, why are you building a faster car? Slower the class, the more track time

[tom91ita]

...Stephen – if you want more track time, why are you building a faster car? Slower the class, the more track time

quote of the day!

i personally feel that things have been done quite well and overall that track time is well managed.

that is, race groups typically run close to historic times and the laps get done and we finish close to on time. isn't there overtime charges if the track is kept hot past a set time? might be worth it as far as an incremental cost....

perhaps the faster groups should get one lap extra so that they have the same time?

interesting questions/topic.

[Matt93SE]

The wya it's done around here is xx laps OR 25-30 min, whichever comes first.

They base the number of laps on what the GT cars should do in the allotted timeframe- 20 or 25min for a regional and 30 for a national I think..

That maintains some sort of reasonable schedule since you KNOW the race is going to end in 30 min even if you have ten OBSC scattered out. then you have a built-in cleanup time and can get the next race rolling on schedule. If the race stays green, you get 15-25 laps. If the race is mostly yellow, then you may only get 10 laps, but it's because someone in your group was stupid and wrecked/blew up.

Then again, I've seen race days end at 2 or 3pm when all went according to schedule and there was minimal carnage to clean up.
OTOH, I've been stuck in grid waiting on 1+hr cleanups when the SRF guys decide to see who can make the longest trail of shrapnel, and ended the race nearly blind from trying to drive into a setting sun.

[StephenB]

Jason, Jason, Jason... you made me laugh to However I am running in ITR which runs with ITB so nothing really changes for me!

You did make some GREAT points about how the clock stops with red flags which would reduce track time for the later groups. That makes perfect sense.

As far as cleanup goes I was thinking that that would take away from the current group on track. If we estimate it will take 10 min. then we could run full course yellow until the cleanup is done. I know we usually pick up stranded cars at the end and in that case maybe cut the race short by throwing a full course yellow. BUT then you can't make that crazy last lap pass that you wouldn't take a few laps from the end...

Honestly I wasn't really thinking about myself I was thinking more about the GT1 or FA groups that run way faster than us. I was also thinking about the time at the end of the day that we don't always utilize.

Thanks for the responses, I was curious on what others had to say. Great thoughts and in the end I kinda like what we are doing now with laps. I like what was pointed out... we have historical data that shows pretty much how long it should take. In reality the fastest cars are only saving about 3 min. or so over the other classes.

Stephen,

PS: Jason didn't you get more track time at F1 Boston than me.

[StephenB]

Then again, I've seen race days end at 2 or 3pm when all went according to schedule and there was minimal carnage to clean up.

This is a problem... I would hope the region did some type of on track activity to use that time, if not that is thousands of lost $$ in track time. To be honest, this was what prompted me to bring up this topic...

[itracer]

PS: Jason didn't you get more track time at F1 Boston than me.

Maybe-- but I got more "laps" at the other adult activity that night

There is no reason to lose hours of track time. The schedule needs to be fluid.

[StephenB]

Maybe-- but I got more "laps" at the other adult activity that night

Now that is funny!

[Z3_GoCar]

So, who's track time is taken away when the tow gets stuck in the mud??

[LiveDrive9900]

Timed races would definitely be better as not to cause a hold up