No apologies necessary -- keep the good questions coming.
And, I hate calling you "spaw" -- lol....can you tell me your first name?
Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion. It is appreciated.
Yes.
No
No apologies necessary -- keep the good questions coming.
And, I hate calling you "spaw" -- lol....can you tell me your first name?
Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion. It is appreciated.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Thanks! Tell our bosses, the CRB!
(I can't think of any Pro series that has 350 cars on the spec lines. THAT is really the crux of the issue in IT. If we had 3 or 5 models to attend to, we might take a different tact. We'd have a MUCH bigger matrix of data to look at, and the variabilities would be reduced in comparison. But we don't, so we have to take another approach. Your point about driver skill is well made. We have to take that into account when even discussing on track performance, and it is a HUGE factor. We've heard from members that they'd rather we are consistent than perfect.)
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
New England Region
lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com
To bring the thread back on topic, and to focus on the results of the poll:
1. I've seen (in my view) decent arguments on both sides for and against removal of dual purpose vestiges.
2. I personally would be in favor of removal but also agree rules stability for the next few years is more important.
3. But the results of the poll were eye opening to me. I, wrongfully, assumed membership strongly supported removal of these items. 103 IT racers does not a majority make, but it is significant and the fact the vote was that close would leave me to believe the rules should be left alone.
Very interesting discussion, and poll.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
The simple answer is "no". Until the last couple of years, the participation numbers (entries) in regional races were not tracked. If you go to http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=40 and go down to the link for "2009 Regional Class Participation", you can see this year's numbers through August. From those, you can make some guesses about how many drivers those entries represent. Remember, especially this year with the economic problems many have had, a lot of those entries will be for drivers who have done only two races to keep their licenses.
For the first time, because of the new points championship for National drivers, the number of drivers who have run at least one National race are being tracked. Go to http://www.scca.com/event.aspx?hub=1&event=13506 and click on the "2009 National Point Standings" link. There are a lot of drivers who have run only one or two Nationals. Some of that is attributable to the economy, but it is most likely that they are drivers who only run the one or two Nationals at their home track and their other races are regionals.
Dave
WOW! ITA is the 3rd largest class in Regional Club racing.
SM 2315
SRF 1431
ITA 1309
ITS 763
SSM (an East Coast SM class) 586
Josh Sirota
ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe
Last edited by Ron Earp; 09-16-2009 at 01:35 PM.
Just looking at the 37 (!) nationally-defined classes, which are available in every regional race ...
The top of the chart looks like this -- full list attached:
The average turnout only goes down from there. Only the top 18 (less than half the classes) average more than 1 car per race.Code:Class Count Average SM 2315 13.9 SRF 1431 8.6 ITA 1309 7.9 ITS 763 4.6 ITB 523 3.2 FV 473 2.8 FF 354 2.1 ITR 349 2.1 EP 263 1.6 ITC 256 1.5
EDIT: Updated attachment to include regionally-defined classes. In this case I determined the average by totalling the races in the divisions where the class was populated (so it ignores zeros), but it's also the case in many parts of the country that not all regions in a division offer these classes. So take with a grain of salt.
Last edited by JoshS; 09-16-2009 at 02:32 PM.
Josh Sirota
ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe
Chris Carey
Central Florida Region
ITS/Vintage Datsun 240Z
Favorite tool to remove undercoating---- A curb!
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
A note of caution on the regional participation numbers...
It's Regional participation ONLY. The Regional only classes are going to rise to the top of the rankings for obvious reasons. For overall popularity, we'd need national numbers too. I didn't see those.
<troll>
Sooo, you're suggesting that a class that can run Regional and National events might be more popular overall...?
</troll>
K
Last edited by Knestis; 09-16-2009 at 03:53 PM.
Jeff:
You didn't look very hard: http://www.scca.com/event.aspx?hub=1&event=13506 and click on the "2009 National Class Participation" link.
Also, you all should note that cars in CF/CFF (Club Ford/Club Formula Ford) are legal FF cars. Likewise, GTP (GT Pinto) cars are legal GT3 cars. Depending on whose IT7 rules are being used, these may also be legal ITA cars. For that matter SSM/SMT are legal (if not competitive) SM cars. And, IIRC, GTA cars are legal GT1 cars.
One last comment: does it strike any of you that maybe, just maybe, there are too many regionally created classes? Yeah, I know that it caters to some real or perceived needs, but are all of those needed? Especially those with negligible entries that could, in almost every case, run in another class?
Dave
Dave
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