Problem Cars

[Knestis]

...Are there cars out there that are so bad that they are stupid slow even with a great driver in them? ...

There are cars that are so badly classed that you almost never see them. I looked at ITB for a data-collection exercise we did...

How about a 2680# SAAB 900? One generation of Mopar stuff is in the same boat, hundreds of pounds overweight. A couple of the Volvo options are too heavy for the engines that came in them, leaving drivers to use the update/backdate rule to make them all the "right year." The 4-cylinder Mazda MX3 is spec'd 200 pounds heavier than the Golf III but comes with 88hp stock, vs. 122 for the VW. We should see a ton of BMW 318i racers in B but we don't because people are smart enough to know they are too fat.

K

[JeffYoung]

Same with the 318is in ITA. You'd think that car would be a great choice.....but too much weight.

[ericblois]

the e30 318 m40 113hp or m42 136hp is classed the same wt 2600 t.he 325E m20 122hp at 2550 least it was the last time i checked.

[joeg]

Brakes and gearing also come into play for a lot of cars.

The problem with dropping weights is that a lot of these cars are kind of Porky anyways. I am not sure how you legally pull a couple hundred pounds out of a Saab 900, for example.

It is a "big" car to begin with.

[Knestis]

Understand though, that it's not necessarily the "so far out of line" cars that are the problem. A pretty big part of the motivation to "fix" mis-spec'd cars is the inconsistencies that members see between cars that are ostensibly the same - that should be the same weight but aren't.

K

[shwah]

Understand though, that it's not necessarily the "so far out of line" cars that are the problem. A pretty big part of the motivation to "fix" mis-spec'd cars is the inconsistencies that members see between cars that are ostensibly the same - that should be the same weight but aren't.

K

e.g. VW Scirocco in ITB vs VW Rabbit GTI in ITB
Same everything (literally - engine, brakes, chassis/floorpan, trans, suspension, steering) except the outer body, and the Scirocco came with 13 or 14" wheels, rather than 14" only. Yet the Scirocco weighs 50# more.

[callard]

All Porsche 911s have to add several hundred pounds after the build to meet the process weight and the horsepower can't be upped the magic 25%.
Chuck

[dickita15]

Brakes and gearing also come into play for a lot of cars.

The problem with dropping weights is that a lot of these cars are kind of Porky anyways. I am not sure how you legally pull a couple hundred pounds out of a Saab 900, for example.

It is a "big" car to begin with.

Had a new kid this year who bought a 900 in B this year and had never scaled it. Lucked into a 3rd place and came across the scales at 150 pounds light.
But your point may still be valid.

[Bill Miller]

Brakes and gearing also come into play for a lot of cars.

The problem with dropping weights is that a lot of these cars are kind of Porky anyways. I am not sure how you legally pull a couple hundred pounds out of a Saab 900, for example.

It is a "big" car to begin with.

Joe,

If that's truly the case, I would think that car would be a good candidate for a move down to ITC. Look at the case of the VW New Beetle, it's believed that the car can't legally make the process weight that the identical (other than the bodywork) Golf and Jetta can. Therefore, the New Beetle landed in ITC at a portly 28xx lbs (IIRC).

Chris (shwah),

It's my understanding that the difference in the Rabbit and Scirocco weights is based on the perceived aero advantage of the Scirocco bodywork. I am not convinced that there's any aero advantage, but what I've heard, is that is the reason for the difference in weights.

[shwah]

But I have been told that aero is not an input to the 'codefied' process.

Even if it were 50# is a LOT to hang on cars with 90hp stock.

[JeffYoung]

Aero is most definitely not part of the process.

[Bill Miller]

But I have been told that aero is not an input to the 'codefied' process.

Even if it were 50# is a LOT to hang on cars with 90hp stock.

Chris,

I am only going on what I was told (a long time ago) when I asked why there was a weight difference between the Rabbit and Scirocco, given the same engine. Initially, I was told that it had to do w/ the ITB Mk II Scirocco being classified w/ the RD (103 hp, 10:1) engine. But that was tossed several years ago, so I don't know. Given that both the Rabbit GTI in ITB, and the Mk II Scirocco w/ the 1.8 8v engine saw weight changes as part of tGR, coupled w/ Jeff's and Kirk's comments about aero not being a factor, I have no idea why those cars have different weights. Maybe someone on the ITAC that was involved w/ tGR can shed some light on it.