Wheel width, ITB, again

[shwah]

How about a 15x6?

Not legal. Only cars with 13 and 14" wheels may alternatively use 15" wheels. Yes, letting everyone run 15" diameter would also solve the problem in that particular case.

[Greg Amy]

Not legal.

Ooo, good catch! Ironically, I think it was Andy that was adamant that the diameter-rule-change rule NOT allow competitors to DECREASE their wheel diameter from stock, only increase "up" to 15 inches...the originally-written rule as published required a subsequent re-write to clarify that point, as I recall ("Cars may not fit wheel diameters smaller than those listed on their spec line")...which means, the NB has one wheel size choice. I wonder, does this "bother anyone"...

I think that one gets dropped in the "ow, that one's gonna leave a mark" bucket...

(P.S., Sorry to come across as rude, but all in fun...really...honestly...)

[Knestis]

So maybe it's a case of back to the future and the real solution is to take the next (relatively painless, I think) step to allow minus diameter sizes in addition to plus sizes.

I don't want folks to think I (or the ITAC) are completely against finding a solution, because I don't believe that to be the case. We've just got to balance the needs of the category appropriately, against the needs of a few individuals.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

So maybe it's a case of back to the future and the real solution is to take the next (relatively painless, I think) step to allow minus diameter sizes in addition to plus sizes.

I don't want folks to think I (or the ITAC) are completely against finding a solution, because I don't believe that to be the case. We've just got to balance the needs of the category appropriately, against the needs of a few individuals.

K

Ya, it was more of a 'what is an acceptable solution' suggestion/question than 'what we can do legally for this car'. But nice try Greg!

[Greg Amy]

Bah, Humbug!!!

[lateapex911]

So maybe it's a case of back to the future and the real solution is to take the next (relatively painless, I think) step to allow minus diameter sizes in addition to plus sizes.

I don't want folks to think I (or the ITAC) are completely against finding a solution, because I don't believe that to be the case. We've just got to balance the needs of the category appropriately, against the needs of a few individuals.

K

That's a much more appetizing solution. Gearing is free, wheel weights are free, so allowing smaller diameter merely gives another avenue to get to those end points. That's all good in my 'hood!

[Z3_GoCar]

Not legal. Only cars with 13 and 14" wheels may alternatively use 15" wheels. Yes, letting everyone run 15" diameter would also solve the problem in that particular case.

Yeah, that one really sucks for the ITA Z3 as it's only allowed to run 16x7 rims where every other car in ITA can run 15x7's. There for a few years Kosi didn't make their rims in the 16x7 size. I think this was one of many issues with the ITA Z3 that soured the deal for Rob, along with the under-performing motor.

[frnkhous]

16x6 wheels are available for any car(weight not an issue) at a reasonable cost.

WWW.diamondracingwheels.com

17x6's could likely be made by forgeline, fikse etc. if not by other less expensive vendors. So it isn't impossible just expensive.

I think for now the steel 16x6 wheels cover it but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing decreasing wheel diameter.

[RacerBill]

16x6 wheels are available for any car(weight not an issue) at a reasonable cost.

WWW.diamondracingwheels.com

17x6's could likely be made by forgeline, fikse etc. if not by other less expensive vendors. So it isn't impossible just expensive.

I think for now the steel 16x6 wheels cover it but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing decreasing wheel diameter.

15X6 22lbs! that's heavier than the 18 stock wheels I have now!!!!!!

RLW - I have been lurking on the thread all the time. Sorry to let you carry the load, my bad. Just that I have not had a chance to build up a stock of 15x7's yet. My issue is that I am 63 years old, and humping 40+ lbs of wheel and tire takes a lot out of me.

[Greg Amy]

15X6 22lbs! that's heavier than the 18 stock wheels I have now!!!!!!

Sweet!

Someone have a source for 16x6 wheels for the NB at $200 each and 9 pounds each? That's what you can get from Enkei in the 15x7.

How about 14x6 or 15x6 in 4x114.3 bolt pattern for $200 and 9 pounds each? (<--- I'm pretty seriously looking for that one).

Just askin'.

[RexRacer19]

How about 14x6 or 15x6 in 4x114.3 bolt pattern for $200 and 9 pounds each? (<--- I'm pretty seriously looking for that one).

Just askin'.

Why not get a set of Kosei wheels, take them to a machine shop, and have them drill an alternate set of holes to your bolt circle? Not sure what offset you need, but just sayin'.

[spnkzss]

On the NB and "allowing" them to run 15" wheels, isn't that assuming they could? Some cars can't go down 1" in diameter because it won't clear calipers and such.

[Greg Amy]

Why not get a set of Kosei wheels, take them to a machine shop, and have them drill an alternate set of holes to your bolt circle? Not sure what offset you need, but just sayin'.

I've been looking at different wheels toward that end. Unfortunately, a lot of the more-common (read: less expensive lighter) wheels don't have a flat back-face, they're cast with "indentations" (for lack of a better word) where the normal bolt circle doesn't exist (I'd guessing to reduce weight.) SO there's no meat there to recut. I wouldn't mind hearing from folks who have 14/15x6 4x100 wheels in the 10-12 pound range that have fully-cast backfaces...and anyone that's found a machine shop that can properly do this kind of rework at a reasonable price... - GA

[shwah]

16x6 wheels are available for any car(weight not an issue) at a reasonable cost.

WWW.diamondracingwheels.com

17x6's could likely be made by forgeline, fikse etc. if not by other less expensive vendors. So it isn't impossible just expensive.

I think for now the steel 16x6 wheels cover it but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing decreasing wheel diameter.

Yes, steel wheels were the only option I was able to recommend to the Beetle builder. There is actually an oem style steel wheel in 5x100 that would work for that car.

[rlward]

So bill, what is your take? I'm only 18 till i die (63), and I like my car. Have you been able to find any 15x6 other than stock? Did you get any 7" before the switch? I thought about machining the wheel to accept a lighter rim, but could not find anybody that would take on the project and can't do it myself with any confidence.

One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.

I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

I looked every where for wheels. No cars left, it seem the air nazies have offered a bounty on 80's dodge products, nothing in wrecking yards out here, all crushed.

To everyone else, including the beatle builders, wouldn't the fitment solution take care of the entire problem? I can't see where we could advocate/demand running on smaller wheels than came stock, has anyone looked at the max load for tires? And, if everyone is against a spec line allowance, although there may/will be costs involved isn't that still the best solution over the long run? We need to find a viable solution, even if it is not 7" in ITB.

[Z3_GoCar]

Seriously, I agree with Rodger and Greg. Open it up to what ever fits under the finder over the stock brakes, and around the suspension. I just don't see the reason to have the biggest rim under there. Of course I'm still running 16x7 stock rims that only weigh 18lbs each. The balance comes when you run more tire than the car has weight to handle or hp to spin up. Other than that pull the old "you pick your car warts and all" line.

[StephenB]

Seriously, I agree with Rodger and Greg. Open it up to what ever fits under the finder over the stock brakes, and around the suspension. I just don't see the reason to have the biggest rim under there. Of course I'm still running 16x7 stock rims that only weigh 18lbs each. The balance comes when you run more tire than the car has weight to handle or hp to spin up. Other than that pull the old "you pick your car warts and all" line.

I posted several times in the begining of this thread and I don't really have any arguements other than what I have posted as I feel that what I have already said clearly explains my view.

However I have to comment on the idea above. (Not to pick on you z3_gocar but you where the last to suggest this idea again) IS this honestly something you would really consider! Dave Gran posted some sizes of rims that would fit under the fenders for Volvos and I think Saabs. If anyone thinks that ITB is all about HP and such I think diefferently and I truelly think that MOMENTUM is huge! with 13inches of Rubber under a Volvo (or a size somewhere between 6inch to 13inch) I certainly think they will GAIN corner speed and therefor momentum and will drop lap times significantly.

would you take the challenge to race for pinks with your car... you on 4" wide tires and me on 10" wide tires?

Someone said it on some thread... Size matters

I strongly suggest that we do not consider the "if it fits run it" idea. Other ideas that have been posted are good alternatives... I still stick to the idea that you should be able to run the stock rims that came from the factory on your car. "IT catagory rules" do not guarentee competiveness and if you want the lighter rims they exist for a price.

Stephen

[Z3_GoCar]

....One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.....

Rodger,

Josh is our West coast ITAC rep.... he's in SFR. Now that you mention it, it's a shame the region that invented IT doesn't have someone on the Ad Hoc.

[StephenB]

[QUOTE=rlward;289693]
I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

QUOTE]

Roger,

Do you want lighter wheels then stock to meet minimum weight? If that is the reason I am less sympathetic. I thought your bitterness was because the "move" forced you to purchase new rims?

Stephen

[RacerBill]

So bill, what is your take? I'm only 18 till i die (63), and I like my car. Have you been able to find any 15x6 other than stock? Did you get any 7" before the switch? I thought about machining the wheel to accept a lighter rim, but could not find anybody that would take on the project and can't do it myself with any confidence.

One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.

I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

I looked every where for wheels. No cars left, it seem the air nazies have offered a bounty on 80's dodge products, nothing in wrecking yards out here, all crushed.

To everyone else, including the beatle builders, wouldn't the fitment solution take care of the entire problem? I can't see where we could advocate/demand running on smaller wheels than came stock, has anyone looked at the max load for tires? And, if everyone is against a spec line allowance, although there may/will be costs involved isn't that still the best solution over the long run? We need to find a viable solution, even if it is not 7" in ITB.

Roger: How bout that - I'm 18 (63) too! My take is that I would love to be able to use 7" wheels. I did not get any before the switch, so I am not in as bad a position as you are. My company where I worked for 10 years just downsized, so my racing budget is REALLY constrained this year. The ad on the inside cover of the issue of Sports Car that just arrived shows only one 15x6 wheel at $300 each. But 8 wheels at 15x7, from $115 to $473, and from 9.3 to 13 lbs. Certainly a much larger selection. I will say that I have not investigated the availability of 7" wheels in 13" or 14", and that definitely effects other cars in the class.

One thing that has not been brought up is the fact that the spec line in the ITCS for the Shelby specifies 15" wheels.

So, my emotions are kind of mixed. I would love to be able to save 7lbs a wheel at a reasonable cost. Still, I can understand the concerns of other ITB/ITC drivers.