Scca It Is Time For Change Now!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here is another thought on National vs Regional. As an IT guy, I don't want it. I hate the format. I want to race, not to practice a gazillion times and qualify. This months Memorial Day Triple is an example of excellent customer service - that we get every year.

Again - maybe to Patullo...is it even feasible for us to run an event with all of our Regional only classes at a National? Even if it was...so much time for a single. No thanks.

LESS EVENTS + MORE VALUE = MORE DEMAND.

I know it stings to allow events to fade away, but really.

[ner88]

First I want to say that at this years convention I twice asked why Nationals? and twice got no real answer????
Now regarding too many races/events, seems to me that with the new track at NJ, races have been added by them so, we/NER should do away with our events?
We/NER do our best to offer the best racing for your buck and our events offer variety.
I'm not going to debate any of these issues here, please feel free to contact me with your thoughts. I'll be in garage 6/south at NHMS Memorial Day weekend.
Jerry Rigoli, Club Racing Chairman NER
SSM 88
508-561-6001

[gran racing]

Why Jerry, is NER to big to omit some of its races? Many times I don't think of SCCA as a Club where regions work together for a single goal. But hey, let the franchises compete against each other right?

For those who don't know, I'm a member of the NER.

[Doc Bro]

Cancel classes prior to the event that are undersubscribed....period. Why hold a run group for 6 cars? You have to draw the line somewhere. As a business owner I know very clearly I can't cater to everyone. Pick your market and cater to them. Ditch the groups that aren't "producing" the numbers and give the others more time. Sure it will make the SCCA even more Miata centric in the short haul, but it may also encourage others to "protect their investment" by forcing their friends to show. The 50+ classes eliglble in a weekend shows very clearly that there is a lack of clarity, and that decisions are made with history and nostalgia in mind. If this were my business I'd run it quite differently.

PS I've always run a BMW so that I can go to BMW Club racing at any point. I can't tell you how many times I've considered it....especially when our run group gets cut short because one of the 6 FV's in the group before us blew up.

R

[jjjanos]

If you strip out SCCA history and simply look at the way races in NEDiv are presented, you see a system that is insanely complex and difficult for a newbie to learn. NERRC! NARRC! Pro-IT! NYSRRC! National! Regional! Sign up for a race here! Oops, not that race, silly - sign up over there! Go here for results! Also here! But not there! What? No payment yet? Then you're considered a late registrant! Oh, you did it that way at the last LRP event? Well that was an NNJR race, and this is an NYR race!

Memo to regions, divisions and national: Simplify, simplify.

1. We have three kinds of club racing events, not the multiplicity you suggest. We have Nationals - more track time, no IT; Regionals - IT and home-grown classes; and restricted Regionals - enduros and IT-adders for a National. If someone is unable to understand that simple delineation, I doubt their fitness to live, let alone enter a club race.

2. The alphabet soup of series you list are choices drivers make and have nothing to do with the 3 kinds of club races. They were instituted at the request of drivers who needed a season-long ego boost to accompany their race ego boost ("I'm a series champion!") and/or by regions as a means to increase entries ("Our late October race at Gildersleeve never draws cars, but if it is part of a championship, people will enter!")

3. Race entry is far easier and more simple than in the past. To enter a race, all one (typically) has to do is go to the webpage of the hosting region and find the link. If someone is unable to navigate a webpage, I doubt their fitness to race. The software might not be identical, but the annoyance factor is minimal. If someone is unable to cope - either through attitude or intelligence - with retyping some information, I doubt their fitness to race due to a lack of intelligence and temper. In the pre-computer days, you got an entry MAILED to you that you had to complete by hand and return via USPS. If you weren't on the SEDIV mailing list and wanted to go from PA to SC for the Memorial Day event, you had to call or write the hosting region.

It is also time to start dropping classes altogether, if after a few years of combined operation a class cannot make the attendence minimum, then it's done. Not too many people watch races where 4 cars are in the race and each one is in a different class so there are 4 winners. You want to have spectators to help fund the operation, and you are not going to get that with 25 races in one day with 25 winners in 9 groups.

1. Turning away entries to raise entry counts seems a foolish strategy.
2. Many/most of our tracks lack either/all of a - the PR infrastructure to promote a large spectator draw; b - the sanitation facilities to handle anything above the walk-up crowd; c - the desire to impact their communities with yet another weekend of noise and traffic jams.
3. Virtually no region has the funds/staffing to promote their races to spectators. In the NE, National racing once drew large crowds and the reason for that was the driver of a Datsun (rest his soul).

If the SCCA can put on a limited number of events, have full fields, with competitive races (perhaps 4-5 groups with 2 classes) where the winner actually is being chased to the checker, than people will start to come back to watch a few events, and vendors will sell product, and the cycle starts fresh again.

So, in otherwords, burn the village to the ground to save it? If you take an old farm house down to its stone foundations and rebuild everything above the ground with modern materials... can you honestly claim to be living in an old farm house? In addition, how do you intend to ensure that the winner will be chased to the checker?

I'm not in the northeast, but the more I read, the more I think you guys up there just need to restructure. You've got points series of regional events that covers the same area as your entire division. IMO (nothing to base this on), the idea is that regional events are supposed to be entry-level, requiring less travel, and if you want to travel and compete for bigger stakes, then you race your entire division and run national races. You guys have 5 tracks covering a huge area for your regional series.

And there's the disconnect. Regional events are entry-events requiring less travel. Don't want to travel? Don't. Want to race in a championship? This one travels because the drivers want it to travel. Nobody says that Speed Racer has to compete in the championship. If Speed wants to race 5 weekends each year, he usually can do so without every leaving his home track.

The championships increase entries for two simple reasons - 1. We, the drivers, are stupid. We race for a championship position and that means competing in most/all of the events. 2. At least for MARRS, you know that when you travel to an away MARRS race, you will see many familar faces.

Too many classes, not enough drivers. Simple.

Nope - not enough drivers covers it. The additional classes ADD drivers to an otherwise low car count.

But the Club as an entity doesn't "get" this, I fear. They are still thinking in the ways of the 60s and 70s, to some degree.

Perhaps, but it for MARRS, it was the drivers who wanted an expanded schedule for this year, including an added out-of-region event.

Why Jerry, is NER to big to omit some of its races? Many times I don't think of SCCA as a Club where regions work together for a single goal. But hey, let the franchises compete against each other right?

If NER is putting on successful races, why should it give up an event to funnel entries into a track/event that isn't successful.

Let's talk Pocono. A crappy place to race and a crappy place to volunteer. The only saving grace are the people who attend. I've never heard a driver or a vol say they like the place. The only way the venue survives as an SCCA venue is because of the championships and the double National. So, NER should give up a weekend pulling lots of cars to pull the fat out of the fire of the regions racing at Pocono?

Personally, I think that's faulty logic.

Cancel classes prior to the event that are undersubscribed....period. Why hold a run group for 6 cars?

1. This weekend last I heard, the SMs lost "their" run group for a lack of entries.
2. Because we can't combine those cars with anyone else?

Let's cut to the chase... the thing that sucks time out of the day like Dracula at a blood bank are the open-wheel cars. Throw them to the wolves and the survivors get more track time AND get to go home earlier.

Around here, we've got 2 run groups whose combined total is less than run groups who stand alone. Try to combine them and, at least around here, the stewards wet their pants.

Want to cull the walking wounded? Easy enough to do using market forces. Charge each race group a fixed fee for the amount of track time it uses. Small groups pay more/car than big groups. Weak groups will whither.

Example: The 8 groups we have need to raise $40,000. That's $5,000 per run group. Put 50 cars on course, those guys pay $100 to enter. Put 10 cars on course, those guys pay $500 to enter.

[TomL]

I was going to chime in, but jjjanos hit nearly all the points that I was going to make. Only disagree with the last idea - and that is because it repeats the fallacy that several of the other posts make. There's been a lot of talk about "customer service" and getting more entries. Then the same people talk about eliminating this or that group or class - as long as it belongs to somebody else. How the hell does throwing out a bunch people who want to race with SCCA constitute "customer service" and how is that going to increase entries?

Let me give you a very graphic example. A bunch of SEDiv RX7 drivers got together when the CRX came in and made their cars hopelessly uncompetitive in ITA and pushed for the creation of IT7. Over the objections of some regional officials who objected to more classes or just didn't like it ("You only want it so you don't have to compete like everyone else," I was told, and "I suppose we've got to give every car its own class," another official smirked) it was finally approved. And guess what. The year before, there were 334 entries in ITA (including RX7s). After the change there were nearly 250 ITAs and 250 IT7s for a couple years. Then the forces of opposition returned and IT7 was eliminated. The following year 334 ITA entries appeared. So this mindless action cost SEdiv about 150 entries in one year before IT7 was reinstated. Fortunately, the SEDiv officials usually get it right, but this was a case of not thinking customer service. Eliminating somebody else's class is not the route to more entries and more money for the regions. To cure one problem jjjanos and others bring up, all it takes is officials willing to make the hard call and, per jjjanos example, combine the fast and slow formula cars when the fields are small. It can be done - and it has happened at at least one SEDIV race this year.

Finally, I see some discussion about how if we have just a few classes with big car counts we'll make club racing a spectator attraction again. Beyond the customer service problem (see above), the world has changed. Frankly, I don't see that ever happening again. Club racing was a spectator sport in the 50's and into the 70's primarily due to a lack of competition. You couldn't even get the Indy or Daytona 500s on TV, so for people who wanted to see racing, club racing was an available option. But now with multiple racing options available on TV every weekend, we're unlikely to ever see any but the hard-core sports car racing nuts - and there just aren't that many of us. We're no different than minor league baseball or, these days, short track stock car racing. It's hard to get people to pay for a minor league product when you can see the best for free.

And even in its heyday, club racing was rarely as big spectator sport most people like to think. Even in the early 70s when sizeable crowds were attending the Runoffs at Road Atlanta, the maximum paid attendance was (according to a former high SCCA official I discussed it with) never more than 4000. Maybe a few prime events (June Sprints, Runoffs at Mid-Ohio or Elkhart) can draw a crowd, but a run-of-the-mill regional or even National? Not likely. Every SCCA event at Road Atlanta is spectator and the Region even runs TV spots to advertise. But the number of paid spectators (non-crew) is so small that my understanding is that the tickets sold don't even cover the cost of spectator insurance. Maybe it's worth it for attracting some new blood, but it's never going to be a prime source of revenue.

Not to say things can't be improved. Yes, it would be better to have fewer classes with a lot more entries in each. But I think that most of the "cures" I've seen are worse than the disease.

[lateapex911]

Tom, my thoughts about eliminating classes has much to do with one of the reasons people are "stingy" about coming to races: lack of track time. Give them multiple races, and they are much more likely to come. But....the difficulty in doing that is acute here in the NE. We have limited group sizes because our tracks are often short. And, some tracks throw even more salt in that wound by having very restrictive hours of operation. Scheduling groups becomes dicey, and cleanups can throw the schedule out the window. The number of groups is often limited to 8 due to the limited hours.

So, when a group of 3 or so classes only musters 6 or 8 cars for it's session, yet can not be combined with another group, it seems like we could be wasting a resource: track time. That group could be eliminated and turned into an ITX group, for example, for double dippers and car sharers to use. SFR does this to huge success.

Net result could be 8 lost entries, but 30 gained entries. Even if those entries were discounted 50%, the region would be better off. Not to mention it would be more likely to attract more entries to start with, as the double dipping idea has economic benefits for the car sharers.

On top of that, Lime Rock, for example, charges $53K to rent the track. Add the other expenses and a region needs over $70K in entries to break even. So having 15% of the available track time go nearly wasted really puts a hurt on things. Jeff Janoskas idea of charging by the group speaks to this issue, but has obvious issues with it's implementation.

IT7 was a late addition here in the NE, perhaps because of pride, who knows. I'd say that we have more IT7 cars coming out now than if we didn't have the class. But, if we needed a group to ourselves, I'd be the first to say "Eliminate us and put us in ITA." But we run with ITA now, and obviously fit fine. Due to the lap times, the Region has lots of options if the math makes the fit in ITA problematic. We can run with the Miatas, or ITB or ITC, or ITS, and it will be fine. So, THAT kind of extra class can be a win win.

And that's always up to the regions.

(And so is eliminating classes, I guess, and running a Restricted Regional. Of course, it wouldn't be popular, which is precisley the reason so few classes get eliminated Nationally.)

[cooleyjb]

Let's cut to the chase... the thing that sucks time out of the day like Dracula at a blood bank are the open-wheel cars. Throw them to the wolves and the survivors get more track time AND get to go home earlier.

Around here, we've got 2 run groups whose combined total is less than run groups who stand alone. Try to combine them and, at least around here, the stewards wet their pants.

Want to cull the walking wounded? Easy enough to do using market forces. Charge each race group a fixed fee for the amount of track time it uses. Small groups pay more/car than big groups. Weak groups will whither.

Example: The 8 groups we have need to raise $40,000. That's $5,000 per run group. Put 50 cars on course, those guys pay $100 to enter. Put 10 cars on course, those guys pay $500 to enter.

Here's the problem with this idea. You are using your little world of the SCCA to compare to the entire country. If they used this mentality in the CENDIV many of the IT classes would be left by the wayside.

[Ron Earp]

Here's the problem with this idea. You are using your little world of the SCCA to compare to the entire country. If they used this mentality in the CENDIV many of the IT classes would be left by the wayside.

And that is ok. You guys would have lots of open wheel classes, some regions would not. I know that at a few races in the SE many hours are spent with two cars having a practice, qualifying, and race while a paddock of hundreds looks on. I know this is a NE thread but I imagine this gets repeated in other regions. Not sure how to solve it though.

I will ask a question that will either show my ignorance or relative newness, one or the other.

How come we can't mix open wheel cars with closed wheel cars that run similar times? Or dissimilar times depending upon your strategy of combining cars? I don't see that the open wheel cars would suffer any more or less in this situation.

[lateapex911]

Here's the problem with this idea. You are using your little world of the SCCA to compare to the entire country. If they used this mentality in the CENDIV many of the IT classes would be left by the wayside.

The difference is that the Formula cars *must* have their own group, for safety reasons. Where IT cars can slot into many groups. Regions have a large fixed cost they need to cover. And they need to fill groups to make that happen. Reserving a group for one car is obviously going to end in tears.

Regions need flexibility to adjust groupings, and they have it. Up to a point. But cars that must have their own group, yet only have counts of 6 or 8 for that group as a total really put a Region in a bind, as that group can be the difference of losing money or making money.

The issue in the NE is rather acute, and unique. If you take say, Danbury, CT as your "epicenter", you have Lime Rock (1 hour tow), NHMS (3 or so hour tow) Watkins Glen (3 or so hour tow) Pocono, (3 hour tow) and NJMP (4+ hour tow). And theoretically, Palmer (1,5hr tow) will be online in a year or two.

Lime Rock, NHMS and Palmer are all in New England, and are "owned" by NER. Yet, MoHud Region, New York Region, New England Region and Northern New Jersy Region ALL call Lime Rock home, as it's the closest track to those regions. I think Watkins Glen is shared by Finger Lakes Region and NY Region.

(i might have a couple details wrong here, Regional execs correct me please)

Now, NER could be a dick and tell the other regions to pound sand, but they don't. So it becomes problematic. NER hosts a bunch of races at NHMS, and has historically done well, and want's to "hold" it's dates at Lime Rock, for fear of losing them forever if they let them go. A good compromise has been to let the other regions run events there, but now, with yet another track to go to (NJMP), and dollars that are harder to come by, those regions are looking at bankrupcey if they hold events, due to the astronomical rental there.

It's funny to me also that as a racer, the events are pretty much the same, no matter who runs the event. Sure there are differences, but first or second year competitors would be hard pressed to notice them. Heck, I see the same faces ( ) in grid from NHMS to NJMP!!

If those Regions DID go away, I wonder if anyone not involved in their operation would even notice?

I know, I'll get icy stares for saying that, (or worse!) but to a degree, we all now it's the case. I think that it might be time to work towards combining some of the smaller regions proactively, before it gets ugly and everyone suffers.

[Robert Zecca]

Keep it coming. I think we may be able to come up with a solution for next year. We need more input from more people and other forums.

[Tom Blaney]

Here is another thought on National vs Regional. As an IT guy, I don't want it. I hate the format. I want to race, not to practice a gazillion times and qualify. This months Memorial Day Triple is an example of excellent customer service - that we get every year.

Again - maybe to Patullo...is it even feasible for us to run an event with all of our Regional only classes at a National? Even if it was...so much time for a single. No thanks.

LESS EVENTS + MORE VALUE = MORE DEMAND.

I know it stings to allow events to fade away, but really.

Part of the entire racing experience is setting up the car correctly for the track your at, that is why there is a practice session, then qualifying and then the race.

Your willing to spend an extra amount of money to attend a Lime Rock event with "a practice day" added as a bonus, why not go to an event where you get to do more with the car, than at the current regional format, where you get a short practice/qualifying session, a very long period where you stare at the car, or sit in the lawn chair, while all 25 other classes get their one shot, then a short race 1/2 the distance of a national race hoping that somebody's car doesn't crash or blow up and cause a full coarse yellow for 1/3 of the race.

If you want race time than consider the fact that at a national format event, you get lots more track time to setup the car, qualify against the competion (to see what they are going to beat you with), and a race that is twice the distance of a regional format -- all in the same time frame as a regional race and all within the same driving distance. So it gives you the track time you want and you might actually have more than 2 competitive cars in the race.

Since your an IT guy, you should also look to the problem as an SCCA member not an individual focused on your own needs. The club needs to change badly and it needs the membership to work as a group to come up with a reasonable solution for all the drivers and most of the cars. Yes there needs to be a blood letting of cars and classes, finally accept that nobody really cares how many IT or Formula car classes there are, narrow it down to big and small, work out a formula that balances the races so that there are a reasonable amount of car marks that can run in the combined IT/Prod/T2 class, or Formula Large bore, Small bore, and GTLarge and GTSmall.

Let go of the I'm a IT guy or I think Open Wheel is real racing mentality and work to make the entire program work.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Tom,

Test days or HPDE days are a WAY better value for testing and car set-up data and tweaking than any practice session at a National. Track specific set-ups are documented and placed on teh car BEFORE the race, no? I do all that prior to coming to the track.

As far as qualifying? 20 minutes is plenty of time to get in your best lap. If you can't, you are doing it wrong.

All I am saying is that as a racer, I want to maximize RACE time. For me, nothing to do with the class I run in except that the changes I can make are minimal - but see my first point above - the way a National is structured is not optimal. Thereby making a National - Regional combo a bad idea for me.

This whole thing is so simple. Pull some events. We don't have the demand for 3 LRP's. We don't have the demand for 4 NHMS's. Pocono on MD weekend is a tough sell. These things are staring us right in the face.

Add Pro IT. People who like the series will run it. People who want mucho track time will run it. It adds potential value to that event. Think up other 'Pro' Series to do the same. Pro-FV or Pro-SRF...anything to add to the revenue line without hurting the value others have placed on the event.

And here is where it hurts like I said in my first post. The small regions who have no track that put their fiscal nuts on the line every time they host a race - STOP! Why? If it was just NER deciding how many races to have, it would come into focus REAL FREAKIN' quick what was a saturated market. Step on some toes. Work together for the betterment of SCCA.

How about a mid-year meeting at the LRP school? We need NER RRB reps there.