Looking for in-car VIR group 6 incident

[Knestis]

I cannot say that I disagree but Starters are aware that the sooner they give the green the faster the speeds are in the first turn when it gets tight and cars start bouncing off each other.

Fair enough.

Josh also points out that the pace car - and the FIELD - has an obligation to get it organized on the pace lap. The reason that I was in the position I was at Mid-O is that the row ahead of me was dawdling all the way around almost to the carousel (scrubbing tires, mostly).

K

[shwah]

This is why IMO we need to reinforce to the starters that it is OK, actually preferred, and IMO safer to wave a bad group off.

Even if there is a split start.

Even if it is a 4 mile track.

[Knestis]

This is why IMO we need to reinforce to the starters that it is OK, actually preferred, and IMO safer to wave a bad group off.

Even if there is a split start.

Even if it is a 4 mile track.

Even if it the day is behind schedule...?

By leave the pavement (I beileve it's racing surface in the GCR), I presume you mean all four off??

That's always been my operational understanding.

K

[shwah]

Even if it the day is behind schedule...?


K

Did this result help out with the schedule?

Yes regardless of schedule. Not following our own rules for the rolling start is a dangerous practice, literally.

[Knestis]

I absolutely agree but there's no question that I've seen compromises to safety made over the years, influenced by the clock.

K

[Ron]

Following Greg Amy during night practice at VIR 13 hr in 2007, I learned that at the left hander after the uphill esses if you cut the inside of the corner you kick up just enough dirt that the following car can't see an exit point. Not saying it was done on purpose, but one does learn "tricks" that can be used later in life.
Also that year we were starting close to the back and it was the fasted pace lap I have ever done. I think the plan from the starters was to spread the field out with a fast pace car. I think the pace car turned a 2:30 lap time! It did however spread the field and it was a smooth start.

[cooleyjb]

Even if it the day is behind schedule...?

Isn't that why races have a number of laps and max time to keep it from getting behind schedule. The pulling of cars after a session slows the day down more than a wave-off.

This is why IMO we need to reinforce to the starters that it is OK, actually preferred, and IMO safer to wave a bad group off.

Even if there is a split start.

Even if it is a 4 mile track.

FWIW they did wave off at least one start this weekend. One of the open wheel groups was waved off.

[jjjanos]

FWIW they did wave off at least one start this weekend. One of the open wheel groups was waved off.

True, but only because they needed to send an EV to retrieve a sports racer that parked on track during the pace lap.

[racer14itc]

Looks like some folks might want to re-read GCR 6.8.3. As an SIT, if I had seen this from the tower (which is admittedly difficult because of the pit wall hindering line of sight in this case), I would have certainly reported it to the Chief Steward. It would then be his/her call to issue a CSA (Chief Steward's Action).

Essentially it says if you leave the pavement during competition and gain an advantage, said advantage can be rescinded by the Chief Steward. This applies at the start as well.

MC

[iambhooper]

Looks like some folks might want to re-read GCR 6.8.3. As an SIT, if I had seen this from the tower (which is admittedly difficult because of the pit wall hindering line of sight in this case), I would have certainly reported it to the Chief Steward. It would then be his/her call to issue a CSA (Chief Steward's Action).

Essentially it says if you leave the pavement during competition and gain an advantage, said advantage can be rescinded by the Chief Steward. This applies at the start as well.

MC

Are you refering to the staters stand or the pagoda? I've been in the that starters stand, and you can see everything.

[racer14itc]

Are you refering to the staters stand or the pagoda? I've been in the that starters stand, and you can see everything.

hoop,

it all depends are where either the Chief Steward is located at that moment, or what the starter and/or start judge see. The start judge should be on the starter's stand as well.

I was not there so I can't speak as to why no action was taken.

MC

[Z3_GoCar]

Looks like some folks might want to re-read GCR 6.8.3. As an SIT, if I had seen this from the tower (which is admittedly difficult because of the pit wall hindering line of sight in this case), I would have certainly reported it to the Chief Steward. It would then be his/her call to issue a CSA (Chief Steward's Action).

Essentially it says if you leave the pavement during competition and gain an advantage, said advantage can be rescinded by the Chief Steward. This applies at the start as well.

MC

By leave the pavement (I beileve it's racing surface in the GCR), I presume you mean all four off??

[shwah]

Essentially it says if you leave the pavement during competition and gain an advantage, said advantage can be rescinded by the Chief Steward. This applies at the start as well.

MC

I never saw that car leave the pavement.

[StephenB]

GCR 6.8.3.
Essentially it says if you leave the pavement during competition and gain an advantage, said advantage can be rescinded by the Chief Steward. This applies at the start as well.

MC

This is a correct statement but to be considered "leaving the racing surface" you need to have all 4 wheels off the racing surface. You also need to re-enter the track where all 4 wheels left... but you can't turnaround

In this case all 4 wheels DID NOT leave the track. until he started spinning and boucing around.

[racer14itc]

This is a correct statement but to be considered "leaving the racing surface" you need to have all 4 wheels off the racing surface. You also need to re-enter the track where all 4 wheels left... but you can't turnaround

In this case all 4 wheels DID NOT leave the track. until he started spinning and boucing around.

Stephen, the "4 wheels off " clause of 6.8.3 only applies to temporary and airport circuits that are marked. So the "off course excursion" portion of 6.8.3 is open to interpretation by drivers and stewards. Guess who usually wins? :eek:

FWIW, this situation could also be penalized under 2.1.4, reckless or dangerous driving. The stewards have several options to curb aggressive driving at the starts...

MC

[StephenB]

Stephen, the "4 wheels off " clause of 6.8.3 only applies to temporary and airport circuits that are marked. So the "off course excursion" portion of 6.8.3 is open to interpretation by drivers and stewards.

I think it is fair to say that in the nicest way possible I completly disagree with you unless noted in the supps.

"The driver is required to follow the pavement or marked course durng a competion, and shall not gain an advantage from an off-course excursion. Unless otherwise provided by Supplementary Regulations, when ever a driver leaves an artificially marked course or an airport circuit with all four (4) wheels, he shall re-enter the course at the same spot where he went off, and cannot simply re-enter further down the course, subject to the directions of the Corner Worker controlling Re-entry"

Guess who usually wins?

I 100% AGREE with you here. At LRP a few years back the stewards penalized you for dropping 2 wheels over a painted line in the uphill... Didn't even have to drop of the pavement at the top of the hill! If you touched that line = DQ!!!

FWIW, this situation could also be penalized under 2.1.4, reckless or dangerous driving. The stewards have several options to curb aggressive driving at the starts...

MC

I 100% AGREE with you here.

Stephen

PS: Thanks for being an SIT. My brother did this and I simply don't have the time... working in retail weekends are a must
Eventhough we will probably never race together and I may never attend an event you personally work at I thank anyone that takes the time to volenteer in our club! Even if we disagree