Hey, hey, ho, ho. SFI has got to go..

[Duc]

We are talking about a fire bottle. They all have pressure relief valves. If it does go off it is going to make a mess and may put out a fire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

Not oxygen generators.

Catch up on Mythbusters' Extinguisher_explosion which was a good one.

Plus it is only a 10-20 dollar fee. The shop I went through did not send it that way (or ate the cost). Nor did the UPS I sent it through. I told them what it was and they did not even know of a hazmat fee (let alone what a fire bottle is).

Plus let me state I really do understand the added cost as I am just starting up. I am still borrowing safety equipment, and will as long as I have a good friend (Helmet, Suit, and HANS).

Also forget the EKG, maybe auto defibrillators like you can find at the airport. Though you would have to use it yourself due to the fact that some is afraid of being sued. Put the button right next you your starter, just hit the right one.

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

[Greg Amy]

We are talking about a fire bottle. They all have pressure relief valves. If it does go off it is going to make a mess and may put out a fire:

If it's listed as HAZMAT, it's a Federal offense to ship it without notifying the carrier.

Period.

[Duc]

If it's listed as HAZMAT, it's a Federal offense to ship it without notifying the carrier.

Period.

Ok flogged sufficantly.

So don't go out to eat twice and you have the hazmat shipping payed for, or if you are doing Fast Food, 4 times.

Point is it is a a new rule. It will cost money. But last time I checked that racing was not free, nor cheap. To get pissed off that they decided that SFI specified fire extinguisher is not worth it. The reason they have to specify something is to keep the manufactures some what honest, and to keep the lawyers off their backs. This is no worse than CARB emission certifications for every aftermarket hard part that goes on any vehicle. It is there to keep the honest people honest.

[Knestis]

The point at which he has to cross SFI's hand with gold for a rollcage or something else that he's used being able to make a decision about himself, Derek will catch on.

When I said "you're all," DD, I meant "y'all" - the collective. For the last couple years, it's only been the "Isaac hotheads" who've been "paranoid" about SFI requirements getting foisted on them. That's going to change but you know what? (Y'all know what?) It probably won't make a difference. There's enough turnover in SCCA that the people who know "how it was" are a small enough minority that they can be dismissed under "black helicopters."

NOW, if I believed that SFI membership made us safer, I'd be totally OK with it. I don't. For those of you who haven't been around for the last 27 of these convesations, you're welcome to search the archives here to find out why but I'm feeling old and tired right now.

K

[dickita15]

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Okay I know this is a little over the top but it does demonstrate the issue with incremental expansion of restrictions.

[Ed Funk]

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Okay I know this is a little over the top but it does demonstrate the issue with incremental expansion of restrictions.

Geez Dick, what's the deal? Either your font is so big my monitor tips over or it's so small my old guy eyes can't deal with it!

[924Guy]

Point is it is a a new rule. It will cost money. But last time I checked that racing was not free, nor cheap. To get pissed off that they decided that SFI specified fire extinguisher is not worth it. The reason they have to specify something is to keep the manufactures some what honest, and to keep the lawyers off their backs. This is no worse than CARB emission certifications for every aftermarket hard part that goes on any vehicle. It is there to keep the honest people honest.

Seems like in this case, yes, SCCA did a decent job (or tried to, at least) - all existing cars are grandfathered. As builder of a new car in addition to owner of an existing car, I don't have a big problem with buying a new system that is approved; this IMO is a reasonable expense in my safety, and I truly do go to extensive lengths to be safe (note that I was an early adopter of ISAAC and center net).

What I do have a problem with is probably an unintended consequence that SCCA didn't notice, this clause about SFI systems having to be re-inspected every 2 years. That's blatant self-interest on the part of the SFI firebottle mfgrs. Not much different that the whole BS about rewebbing your belts every 3 years. If they're made of the el-cheapo SFI webbing that degrades quickly in the sunlight, as opposed to that superior euro-spec stuff that lasts much longer.

Of course, since we're not SFI members ourselves, we have no say in the matter... sorta taxation without representation...

[shwah]

Of course, since we're not SFI members ourselves, we have no say in the matter... sorta taxation without representation...

The SCCA is a member of SFI as far as I know.

[tderonne]

OK, I'll throw a little gas on this fire (pun intended!).

We have to have our fire systems certified/checked/whataver every two years?

If you have an FIA rated cell (as called for in the GCR for most other classes), the FIA certification expires after 5 years and the cell needs to be recertified. None of us do that of course, nor have I ever heard of a tech inspector even asking.

Don't worry about a fire from an old cell, you have a safe fire system!

(And SFI has specs for cages (that we don't use).......but that is another topic.)

[924Guy]

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

I'm not really getting the sense that this is the case (not that I'm any fan of laywers)...

Sadly, SCCA seems to just be getting scared of lawsuits, and not just about safety: there was recently a big stink about some special wheels in FF, which were custom-made at great expense, for an aero advantage. They were ruled (in protest during a race weekend) as being illegal. The car owner, who paid to have all these special rims made (not directly perhaps in conflict with the rule, to be sure), filed appeals etc right up to the top. As I heard word-of-mouth, it came down to him complaining that he'd invested a great deal of money into having the rims made, and if SCCA didn't find them legal for use, he'd sue SCCA.

I think it was the Jan Fastrack that had a wheel rule change for FF to allow basically any wheel you want, covers unrestricted.

Sad, but I heard it from a trustworthy source IMO.

[raffaelli]

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

That is just plain silly. Don't hate the player (lawyer), hate the game (laws which allow courts to become bogged down with nothing lawsuits). Lawyers just do there job - get the most bang for the buck for their clients.