Hey, hey, ho, ho. SFI has got to go..

J

jjjanos

New member
The new fire system requirement in the GCR has got to go. As far as I can tell, it serves only two purposes:
1. To put more money into the hands of SFI. You cannot be certified w/o paying their extortion-like per-unit fee.
2. To put more money into the hands of people who make these systems. If you're system is discharged, you no longer can refill it yourself. You must have it refilled by someone who is "certified". I.e. see item #1.

Can someone please explain to me the value-added to the racers by this requirement?

Frankly, if you are contemplating building a car, I advise you to buy the rollcage/logbook of a wrecked older car. The logbook goes with the cage, not the car. I.e. all of the grandfathering goes with the cage.

I'm really getting angry.
 
jjjanos said:
The logbook goes with the cage, not the car. I.e. all of the grandfathering goes with the cage.
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Actually, technically speaking, I don't think there's nothing that says you can't recage an already-logbooked car, or if you do that you have to re-issue the logbook...ergo, the numbers can be transferred to the new main roll hoop...

Just sayin'...
 
It's even worse than you think (I was pondering putting this firebottle issue in the H+N thread, but figured it was too off-topic, and I was too lazy to start my own thread).

Anyway, yes, it's worse than you even state; apparently (according to our local race shop guy, Keith Averill of Averill Racing Stuff) when you get an SFI firebottle - it also has to go back to the mfgr every 2 years to be inspected!!! What a scam!!!

Also, the SFI ones tend to be too tall to fit in-between the rails of a formula car in the standard fitment. Fortunately FIA ones are still allowed, but they have to be on the FIA list, and finding the list is a PITA.

Sadly, I will be buying a new firebottle system for my new car; even though it came with a system and logbook, since I will have to get it re-homologated due to a class change, I expect (taking an FF and making a DSR), I have no choice but to buy new... :(

I'll also proably have to suck it up and buy a HANS to replace my ISAAC, eventually...
 
You're all paranoid about SFI. They have your best interests at heart.

...or maybe...

DON'T START WHINING NOW. YOU'VE SEEN THIS COMING FROM MILES OFF.

K
 
Knestis said:
You're all paranoid about SFI. They have your best interests at heart.

...or maybe...

DON'T START WHINING NOW. YOU'VE SEEN THIS COMING FROM MILES OFF.

K
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Who said I'm starting to whine? I've opposed them along. What I'm starting to get is angry.
 
How much of the cage has to go into the new car? I'm "rebodying" the 240 and I was just going to get a new cage built since I wanted a lot of cage work done anyways. Can you just cut out the part with the log book number and transfer that?

David
 
My car had an old Autopower Bolt in. It was what I had, was free, and got me on track. I got the log book in December of the last year you could use ERW tubing.

Once I had the funds, and a baby on the way, I improved every safety system, which included installing a custom, welded cage. Took it to tech, told them what we did, asked them how they wanted to handle it, and they elected to just make a note in the existing log book and stamp the new cage with the old number.

There was none of the original cage retained.
 
Wait, what's with the fire systems? I don't have time right now to follow the news. Is my ESS AFFF Fire System still OK?
 
So the way I understand it, on the ITA I am building now I can either run just the plain fire extinguisher, or the high dollar system you guys are talking about, but nothing in between?

I was already puzzled by the fuel cell rule, which allows either the stock tank or a top of the line cell, but none of the perfectly fine budget alternatives. What is the reasoning here? I am asking this in all seriousness, I am new to IT rules and am curious as to the why the all or nothing thought process.
 
Sigh...I dunno about this new firesystem fracas, but, last I checked, the fuel call rules were more open. I have a Jaz Rotomolded cel in my car.

There wasa rather lengthy thread on here about cels, Greg Amy played a role in it, maybe a search under his user name with Fuel" as a keyword would net hours of head scratching reading pleasure!
 
AjG said:
Wait, what's with the fire systems? I don't have time right now to follow the news. Is my ESS AFFF Fire System still OK?
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As of now, cars "registered" before 1January2009 do not need to meet the stupid SFI requirement.

Gibson said:
So the way I understand it, on the ITA I am building now I can either run just the plain fire extinguisher, or the high dollar system you guys are talking about, but nothing in between?
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Bingo. Seems that to meet the system, it must be shipped loaded. That incurs a charge to load it. It also incurs a HAZMAT shipping fee. If you never fire your bottle, then two years after certification, you have the privilege of shipping it back to the manufacturer for "inspection." That would require discharging the bottle, incurring a recharge fee in addition to the inspection fee.

Everybody who thinks that companies getting full bottles shipped to them for recertification will simply ship them back w/o discharge but with the recharge fee - raise your hand.

I am asking this in all seriousness, I am new to IT rules and am curious as to the why the all or nothing thought process.
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Guess? Asshat BoD members buying into the agenda of some safety-fascist on the CRB who recommend it. Stupidity on our part for not fighting this tooth and nail.
 
haha man scca just got stricter than grand am/nascar on firesystems. atleast they just check the guage not a date of certification... this is ridiculous.
 
924Guy said:
.....:(

I'll also proably have to suck it up and buy a HANS to replace my ISAAC, eventually...
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and then it will be an FIA seat.

and then it will need to be replaced every 5 years due to UV damage of the composite materials.

and then it will be the car's chassis....
 
jjjanos said:
Bingo. Seems that to meet the system, it must be shipped loaded. That incurs a charge to load it. It also incurs a HAZMAT shipping fee. If you never fire your bottle, then two years after certification, you have the privilege of shipping it back to the manufacturer for "inspection." That would require discharging the bottle, incurring a recharge fee in addition to the inspection fee.

Everybody who thinks that companies getting full bottles shipped to them for recertification will simply ship them back w/o discharge but with the recharge fee - raise your hand.
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First the HAZMAT is NOT true. Big brown box trucks do not care what you ship (just do not tell them) and bring the box pre-packaged. Did that with my fire bottle to and from the shop. Second, if the company doing the work is not someone you trust, don't send it to them.


Also why could someone not just keep a hand held fire extinguisher and have a AFFF system as well. That is still compliant.

What everyone needs to get mad about is the lawyers that take on frivolous lawsuits that is driving this all.
 
Duc said:
First the HAZMAT is NOT true.
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Then someone needs to tell the manufacturers. The two places I checked said it wa shipped with a HAZMAT fee when charged.

Also why could someone not just keep a hand held fire extinguisher and have a AFFF system as well. That is still compliant.
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The principle?

Cost? It isn't compliant if you also want to enter in production. Between fuel, mileage, food, hotel, leave time, etc. there is a significant cost in towing 4-6 hours to a track. I've got a car that, other than a ridiculous requirement for a fire system and an SFI certified system at that, could be entered in a second race - often at a volume discount. The ability to run that extra set of sessions means I don't need to do the test day (saving 1 day of expenses). Hell, it's twice the track time for the same towing cost.

The danger from fire is significantly over estimated. I've seen and heard of more drivers dieing from heart attacks while racing then who have experienced a fire where they needed the suit, let alone a fire system.

Kee-rist, if they want to save our freaking lives, the requirement should be for a real-time EKG when driving.
 
Duc said:
Big brown box trucks do not care what you ship (just do not tell them)...
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Dude. That's potentially a Federal offense. If that thing ends up on a commercial airliner and they don't know, at best you're on your way to the pokey (witness: Value Jet 592).

If it's HAZMAT, you better declare it.

GA
 
We are talking about a fire bottle. They all have pressure relief valves. If it does go off it is going to make a mess and may put out a fire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

Not oxygen generators.

Catch up on Mythbusters' Extinguisher_explosion which was a good one.

Plus it is only a 10-20 dollar fee. The shop I went through did not send it that way (or ate the cost). Nor did the UPS I sent it through. I told them what it was and they did not even know of a hazmat fee (let alone what a fire bottle is).

Plus let me state I really do understand the added cost as I am just starting up. I am still borrowing safety equipment, and will as long as I have a good friend (Helmet, Suit, and HANS).

Also forget the EKG, maybe auto defibrillators like you can find at the airport. Though you would have to use it yourself due to the fact that some is afraid of being sued. Put the button right next you your starter, just hit the right one.

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.
 
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