Senior Member
Wow. Was Ziegler even with the door? No. Had Knowles driven essentially the same line the previous lap (see video)? Yes.Originally Posted by Greg Amy
Hard to reconcile the above statement with this from you...
http://www.roadraceautox.com/showpos...4&postcount=57
According to you, it was Knowles corner and Ziegler is completely in the wrong.
Senior Member
Actually, not really if you watch Ziegler's in-car. Knowles was never anywhere as close to the left side of the track during the prior few laps. Not sure about early in the race.
Josh Sirota
ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe
Senior Member
Ziegler's video at youtube.com only shows the previous and incident laps. Knowles moves right to left leaving somewhere about a car to less than a car-width on DL.
None-the-less, Ziegler wasn't even with the door - the standard maintained by some.
Both drivers were at fault. Knowles for failure to leave racing room. Ziegler for failing to avoid contact (Zielger's video seems to indicate that he never lifted as Knowles moved over - that's failure to avoid contact).
Both drivers should have been penalized, regardless of the fact that Knowles already was punished with a hurt car.
In a perfect world, Ziegler could have lifted and, armed with a tape showing hat there wasn't room left, Knowles would have been penalized. In the real world, few, if any stewards, would enforce such a penalty w/o contact in a normal race, let alone the Runoffs for the win.
As for stewards not getting involved... ANY official may file a protest. I would like to see the stewards get MORE proactively involved for contact. It protects people not involved in the immediate incident from later being a victim when the not-at-fault driver whimps out and doesn't file paper.
I've been in groups with a loose cannon and it wasn't until the third or fourth incident before the guy who got hit filed a protest. Bad on the earlier victims for settling it with a handshake instead of paper. The final victim shouldn't have been hit and under the self-enforcement idea, wouldn't have had standing to file a protest.
Administrator
Good try with the stalking, but that doesn't change my mind.
OK, so it was a "racing incident". Which is exactly what I said above.
Soooo.....what's your point? Are you just in an argumentative mood last night...?
Last edited by Greg Amy; 11-22-2008 at 10:15 AM.
Senior Member
Shame to see that you cannot be logically consistent.
Which isn't consistent with your standard of at the door or more.OK, so it was a "racing incident". Which is exactly what I said above.
"Racing incident" implies no fault a/o no need to impose punishment. Both drivers being at fault suggests punishment for both - even if one or both have wrecked cars. Drivers who accumulate racing "incidents" tend to accumulate red-mist "incidents" eventually. The judicial process should nip that behavior in the bud.Soooo.....what's your point? Are you just in an argumentative mood last night...?
Administrator
Look, I don't know what your beef with me is, but...
You might be surprised to find that I think different situations can be, well, different. I don't know to what "other" incident you infer my " inconsistency", but I consider the Touring 2 last lap to be a racing incident. Based on what I saw on the Speed broadcast - which is all I know about it - I see this as two guys fighting for a national championship; I certainly don't think the win should have been taken away from Ziegler as a result.
If Greg Amy's opinion(s) on the incident are so important to you and this bothers you, feel free to vent to the world. But, do note that your opinion(s) and/or your venting will have zero affect on my opinion(s).
Finally, do not infer an ignoring of further posts from you on this subject as tacit approval; trust me, it's not.
GA
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