ITB - what a bunch of crap

[Andy Bettencourt]

Greg, you are trying to use numbers that are known NOW to fit yor argument that the later car fits the process. Seems disingenous to the original arguement.

Let me try this another way.

Some people have an issue with this because they think it is not how the other classifications work. In other words, cars are classed based on the highest hp rating on its spec line and this is somehow special treatment. In reality, this situation is TOTALLY different.

In the case of the RX-7 or the Teg or (insert applicable car here), the lower hp car has the ability to UD/BD to the higher HP level. That is NOT the case here. All the early cars would get saddled with the weight of the higher hp without any way to get that hp back. It would be like the 86 RX-7 having to run the 146hp motor at the 160hp weight. It would be like the 1990 Teg having to run the 130hp cams at the 140hp cams weight. It's not right...but they can UD/BD to get the power to match the weight. The 94/95 Miata can't UD/BD to that power rating as a base.

So my conclusion would be to list them seperatly in the ITCS. Does this logic make sense?

[Greg Amy]

In the case of the RX-7 or the Teg or (insert applicable car here), the lower hp car has the ability to UD/BD to the higher HP level. That is NOT the case here. All the early cars would get saddled with the weight of the higher hp without any way to get that hp back....The 94/95 Miata can't UD/BD to that power rating as a base.

Okay, now you've lost me. Two questions to clarify:

- Was the Integra and the RX-7 (as examples) classified using the higher or the lower horsepower number?
- Wasn't it you that said the Miata was the same exact everything except for the ECU (which is legal to change in IT)? That the whole reason it was done this way was because it was "100% the same car"?

If so, then how is it that the earlier car could not be updated to the "higher" horsepower if the higher number was used for clarification?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Okay, now you've lost me. Two questions to clarify:

- Was the Integra and the RX-7 (as examples) classified using the higher or the lower horsepower number?
- Wasn't it you that said the Miata was the same exact everything except for the ECU (which is legal to change in IT)? That the whole reason it was done this way was because it was "100% the same car"?

If so, then how is it that the earlier car could not be updated to the "higher" horsepower if the higher number was used for clarification?

Good questions.

- The Teg and the RX-7 are classed using the higher hp numbers. There are mechanical differences in the engines that, when ud/bd is applied, the earlier car can get to the laters cars base hp number.

- Yes, I guess. Not sure your point but I was trying to explain (justify) it a different way. The way it was decided was that the later car couldn't make more hp in IT trim than the early car with IT prep (a number that IS used in the classification) so it made sense to keep the listing as is.

This attempt at explaining my logic was to say it is not fair to the early car because it can't ever recover the 5hp difference that saddles it with the extra 90lbs because the difference that accounts for that hp is open in IT. So my conclusion is to break them apart because this situation is not the same as other lower/higher hp cars on the same spec line. You should be able to build the lower hp car into the higher hp car for them to be on the same spec line...no?

[JeffYoung]

Ok guys, the tone here has gotten out of hand - this isn't the "brown" (roadrace) board. Andy's not advocating his position based on some personal basis. I'm 99% sure he'd still win with 75 more lbs in the car. I disagree with the rational he's using on the Miata weights but some of the stuff above is out of line.

Let's keep the debate to the numbers.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I just saw this is the latest fastrack

" 4. ITA – Help the 1.6 Miata (Whitton). The car is appropriate as classed."

LMAO......