Heater cores

[Spinnetti]

The rules grew from a philosophy that said, "Do the minimum stuff required to make a stock street car ready for racing." There's no modification cheaper than "no modification."

K

True, but what really irritates me is the addition of all kinds of stuff that make it more of a real race car, while ignoring all the cheap/free stuff that would also make the cars more fun. Cases in point, you have to keep your heater core and washer bottle, but you can run coil-overs and a custom ecu. Class philosophy my a$$. Seems to me, the club leadership can't make up their mind what they want, so we have the ever changing mishmash that pleases very few. To me its simple: Allow stuff that reduces weight and costs little or nothing to do, and prohibit the expensive stuff - adjustable shocks, coilovers, ecu mods....... That does more to keep costs in check, and you can still get a light car that puts less stress on the components (thus helping them last longer)... I just wish they would leave well enough alone already.

[lateapex911]

True, but what really irritates me is the addition of all kinds of stuff that make it more of a real race car, while ignoring all the cheap/free stuff that would also make the cars more fun. Cases in point, you have to keep your heater core and washer bottle, but you can run coil-overs and a custom ecu. Class philosophy my a$$. Seems to me, the club leadership can't make up their mind what they want, so we have the ever changing mishmash that pleases very few. To me its simple: Allow stuff that reduces weight and costs little or nothing to do, and prohibit the expensive stuff - adjustable shocks, coilovers, ecu mods....... That does more to keep costs in check, and you can still get a light car that puts less stress on the components (thus helping them last longer)... I just wish they would leave well enough alone already.

Initial caveat and background info going in. I'm one of the club leaders (ITAC member) that can't make up his mind and has created the mishmash that pleases few.....(oh, and so is Kirk)

Where to start....

First, Kirk hit many of my points below...but.........

The term "real race car" is always determined by one's own outlook. And usually, a car just below yours in stature (whatever that is) isn't a "real race car"....the term always makes me laugh. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm RACING my car, and I want to beat everyone in my class. If you want to tell me it's not a "real race car", well, I'll be polite with my response, but lets just say I think that the term is just mental masturbation.

"Pleases very few", you say? Interesting, but if the IT category numbers were compared to any other category in the club, I bet it would be near, or at the top...IT is pretty darn popular. Polls have shown that the ruleset (not too much, not too little) and class stability are the main reasons subscribers have chosen the category. Chronic malcontents can always find stuff to whine about, but that's true anywhere.

I really fail to see how removing a heater core, (weighing all of two pounds, centrally located) will make the car "more fun" .. Come on, you're just checking to see if we're reading aren't you?

See Kirks point below for the real scoop on how ALLOWING things is actually CHEAPER, but let me add some history and a couple of points.

1- When IT first came to light, Fuel injected cars were very very rare. The rules allowed all cars to adjust ignition, (duh, right? LOL) timing and dwell, as well as carb jetting. Cars were classified based on the expected gains from such tuning. Now, along come FI cars. But, how do those guys get the same allowances the carb guys get? In the beginning, they didn't. Of course, they had to do something....custom or upgraded chips, as other standard racing modifications could cause the engines to run improperly. Here's the key phrase for you: Technology advancements drive rule changes more than any other factor. The club had no choice but to allow ECU chip changes. Well, that sounds good and all, but not all "chips" were just "chips". Some designs needed piggyback boards and so on. So, the club adapted again, and allowed anything that fit in the stock box. Nice try, but, that was, to be blunt, one of the worst rules IT has seen. Of course, some boxes were large enough to allow full blown standalone ECUs, and there were some racers well heeled enough that MoTeCs started being installed.
Bottom line was that it was a lopsided rule. Some cars couldn't fit anything, (you're screwed) some could fit everything, (whoo hoo!) and some could only fit the ultra expensive. (Oh well, I'm broke, but it could be worse).

1A- Class philosophy lesson: Contrary to your opinion... class philosophy DOES exist, (and it has nothing to do with your backside) and when technology changes, so must the category, or it will cease to be relevant. But, it must change in such a way to treat all cars as equally as possible. Open ECUs do just that. No longer is anyone bound by the artificial limits of their box capacity or their wallet. Allowing more options makes it cheaper, and fairer for all.

2- Coilovers, camber plates and the like actually make racing cheaper. Ask the Touring guys what they spend on dampers, because they are bound to stock springs by the rules. They spend THOUSANDS to get dampers that add spring rate.........when they could have used a $50 coil spring. Camber plates? Spend a few bucks on camber plates, and save yourself thousands on tires with corded shoulders and full depth inside tread. And so on. And on. (See Kirks post below)

Allow stuff that reduces weight and costs little or nothing to do, and prohibit the expensive stuff - adjustable shocks, coilovers, ecu mods....... That does more to keep costs in check, and you can still get a light car that puts less stress on the components (thus helping them last longer)... I just wish they would leave well enough alone already.

Come on now, do you REALLY think that removing a 2 pound heater core and a 1 pound washer bottle are going to make your car last longer? Do the math for me ok? Really, I want to see how that works. Just like three pounds is going to change the "fun to drive" factor. Show me that math too, while you're at it. And I guess you're living on fixed income, because I have to tell you that removing my heater core is going to cost me money...either I pay someone to do it, or I lose time ($, family time, or time that could be spent improving some other aspect of my life) and do it myself. (Of course, I think it would be idiotic to do it in and of itself, so i won't lose a minute or a dime over it...)

Leave well enough alone you say?
Done.
Heater cores and washer bottles stay.

[tdw6974]

Heck today no heater core needed. The Nice Ice vest I have for sale would be good!!

[Knestis]

>> ... adjustable shocks, coilovers, ecu mods. ...

To appropriate your term, "leadership my a$$."

"Leadership" does the easy thing, 9 out of 10 times - that being what will get them the least grief from membership. You've got nobody to blame but your fellow IT racers for everything you're complaining about.

All three of the allowances you list have similar histories: What was thought to be a simple modification was pushed to the limit by a few early adopters, gained popularity, became the accepted norm absent any early questions of compliance, and was subsequently codified because it was too painful to go backward on them - particularly when the new technologies became more affordable than the ones they replaced.

If you think coilovers are more expensive than having custom springs wound for stock-style struts, think again. If you think Megasquirt is more expensive than the shoehorn (whatevertheheck) into the stock box - wrong. If you for one minute believe that deep-pockets racers wouldn't have multiple sets of non-adjustable shocks rather than pimpy double-adjustable Konis, you need to come to a SE or NE IT race where people are pushing the envelope.

And would you have taken away the precursor technologies or just the current ones? Do you want anyone with FI to run stock parts and settings only? Are resistors OK to change input values? What about chip changes? Where do you draw the line?

At the end of the day, are you REALLY advocating for not having those allowances or are you using them as rationale for more? Just because some of the horses have gotten out of the barn, doesn't mean we shouldn't close the doors because those "easy, cheap" things are just the first step to the next round of things you'll be unhappy with.

K

[GKR_17]

Come on now, do you REALLY think that removing a 2 pound heater core and a 1 pound washer bottle are going to make your car last longer? Do the math for me ok?

A well prepped car is going to weigh the same with or without those items. The weight would just move to the floor. There have been many times I was glad (or wished) I had a functional defroster. And even one where I wished the washer system was operational.

[lateapex911]

A well prepped car is going to weigh the same with or without those items. The weight would just move to the floor. There have been many times I was glad (or wished) I had a functional defroster. And even one where I wished the washer system was operational.

Grafton, i hear you! I suspect the complaint is that certain cars are hard to get to min weight, and we should make more allowances.....

But...my point is, 3 pounds? THAT's going to make the car last longer/win more/be better to drive?

If we're going to change the rules because our level of granularity has gotten down to 3 pounds, well that's another thing, but this is IT, not F1, and we can't class/prep/drive our stock based cars to that level.

[itb76]

...this is IT, not F1, and we can't class/prep/drive our stock based cars to that level.

Jake, you have the nicest avatar.

I appreciate having defrost and heat in my race car. Not often, but it's great when you need it. There's no way I'm going to notice 3 lbs of weight in my car. Run prod or GT car if you're that sensitive about weight.