NHMS happeneings

[MKB]

DICK.........spot on race reporting! ALSO you must be the ONLY person I know who would report "Wicked fun weekend" after being spun out of a possible victory (lesson to be learned i would say) The "wave of debris" that came off Dicks car was most impressive (it really looked like water)! I also would like to thank all who stopped over to congradulate Us on our 1st victory! I did not know I had that many friends and have to admit I did not know everyone who stopped in!!!!! What a GREAT club!

6 weeks till RAL.


Mike B IT7 #29

[dickita15]

My incident involving a Miata did not involve lapping. He was running in ITA behind me, my race went away and I backed off a bit. He caught up with me and as he was not in my class the first time he took a look I gave him the inside and he could not pull it off without hitting me. The lapping comment is an inside joke between Andy and I.
Jerry I see no reason to call this guy out by name as I do not think he is on this board.
I am not sure why we tend to see more Miata guy seeming to get into this kind of spot than others but I have some guesses. There are a lot of novice drivers running Miatas. My friend was in our April school.
I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.
And finally for those that hang out with the SM/SSM crowd I really do think there is a culture difference that does value momentum more than the duty to avoid contact ay all costs.
The incident I had on Saturday was between two cars dicing for the lead driving at 100% if their combined talent level and car capability. At least we were racing for something worth winning.
The novice in the Miata that hit me after I gave him the inside was 10 seconds behind the next ITA car and 5 second ahead of the next one with cars from other classes in between.

[gran racing]

I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.

I've only driven a Miata once at Lime Rock and was surprised at how easy of a car it is to drive a 9/10ths. It was a damp day, the back end came out in the left hander and was much easier to control than I would have anticipated. Getting the Miata to that last 10th is a whole nother ball game though. Maybe because reaching the 9/10ths mark isn't too difficult but getting to the next level is might be the cause of some of these incidents.

It's popularity and relative ease to build a decent SM also adds to new drivers being attracted to the category. I also think the fact it's a spec class creates a thought process that they need to take larger risks to complete passes. For us IT guys, different cars have different strengths and weaknesses so we determine where our cars are stronger more easily. I wonder if in combined groups they're just so programmed with the way they race in a complete SM field.

[lateapex911]

The Meotters I've driven have been incredibly forgiving, and I've watched guys race with me -(at pocono, where I was grouped with them, and my 4 laps on a wacko track I'd never driven put me in the not so desirable neighborhood) - do some real shove it in there,dive bomb, hope for the best on the other side passes, and if I wanted to be a dick, (the third time from the same..... errrrr...guy) i could have easily not jumped out of the throttle, and therefor driven into their recovery space and punted them. Finally, I got a clue as to where the track went, and drove more aggressively, and that was that.

I think that the fact is that you can be a complete bonehead, get the thing all out of shape, and just drive, away makes folks feel invincible. In other cars I've driven, if I pulled some of the stunts I've seen, I'd be at the frame shop.

[jimalley]

I normally don't post, but I check this site faithfully. I plead guilty to being the racer (Jim Alley) who ruined Dicks weekend.

I got involved in SCCA in 2006 and have raced in the NER ITA field since I joined. I was sixty years old when I joined and quite frankly don't have the skills, experience, or guts to run up front. Then again and don't have the ego so that is a problem for me, as it apparently is for others. I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

2. Starting at age sixty to take up racing I chose the Miata on the advice of quite a few knowledgeable people as I wanted to start in a Viper I owned at the time. I am glad I chose the Miata as it is well balanced and very forgiving. In my mind it is the perfect car for someone my age who is happy running mid field and I don't think I should have to apologize for driving a Miata.

3. I have been dive-bombed and cut off by every type of car because I am a mid pack racer. I have always given point by's when being lapped and don't think I have been a problem for others on the track. I have had no more problems with Miatas than any other car.

4. I hope if I don't get discouraged by all the negativity and quit, that I don't fall into the category of whining, complaining and making excuses for my own inadequacy as seems to be a commonplace problem. I decided to do this for the fun, enjoyment and an escape of owning and running a business that is stressful. I am not interested in going to the track to be the center of controversy or to have any confrontation over club racing. No Thank you!

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it!

[dickita15]

Jim
I am sorry you are upset or discouraged and if you have been racing for three years and never had contact that was the start of a good record. I am sorry I called you a novice, I thought I saw you at the school in April, if that is not true I am sorry for the mistake.
Yes you did wave me down and apologize. I have to admit I found it a little unsatisfying. First if I feel I wronged someone I try to seek them out right away and not let over an hour pass and second, and this may be a matter of style or personality I really was not impressed with the idea that you really thought this was your fault. You never looked at my car or asked about damage. This maybe only my perception as you seem to express yourself more fully in with the written word than verbally so again if I perceived the conversation wrong I am sorry.

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

Above is where we have a problem. Had I been able to divine that you were unable or unwilling to control your car in a manner that would allow me racing room, yes I could have jammed on the brakes at the exit of the corner and avoided contact. I am not that psychic. The track narrows to forty feet at the point that you hit me and drove me off the track. I was letting you by and gave you 35 of track to get it done. The rules require you to leave me 5 feet. You were not hit. You hit me in the right front wheel.
You cannot have it both ways. Saying it may or not be your fault is not taking responsibility.
If you are discouraged my conscience is fine.

[ner88]

My final word on this:
A person should not be judged by the car that he has chosen to drive.
The Miatas racing in ITA are there because they have a right to just as your Honda, Accura or whatever is.
I'm sure if Jim was driving a RX7 it may have been nothing more than a bad move!
In my 8 years of racing Miatas I have never driven anyone off track or taken anyone out of a race, so I don't like being lumped into a catagory just because of my car choice.

Call them....Old, bald, fat, short, but please not Miata guys!
But, then again??????never mind!

[dyoungre]

I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it![/quote]


Jim,
I applaud you for posting your side, as it helps clear up misunderstandings. I hope you are not an idiot, nor a jerk - and in this case, I hope you can listen, as well as think about it:

I don't want to race with you.

I say that, because I don't think you understand the rules of door to door racing. By your statement, you have told me that your racing philosophy is dangerous and unsportsmanlike.

By suggesting that someone should have to hit the brakes as the only course of action to avoid either going off course or hitting a passing competitor shows that you have not comprehended the rules of our sport.

To Quote GCR 6.8.1 B: "All competitors have a right to "racing room" on the marked surface..."
6.8.1 C: " It shall be incumbent on all drivers to preserve the right of his fellow competitors to racing room on the race track."
6.8.1 D: "The responsibility for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely rests with the overtaking car."

No where does it say "you can cut someone off as you pass, as soon as your front fender is ahead of your competitors".

I have had my share of on track contact, and probably 50% was my fault. I tried to pass someone in 3, locked up my tires as they turned in on the apex and spun them. I have stayed on track when my car was off pace, and gotten in people's way, no matter how hard I tried to point and stay on my line. I don't race often enough to keep my skills (and my head) where it should be by now. That being said, the most important thing to me is knowing that my competitors feel comfortable going door to door with me, knowing that I will race them hard and clean.

I have also raced on a track about twice as tight as NHIS, where passes typically took 2 to 3 turns to complete. Through those turns, we would run side by side, without contact, until we CLEARED the other car, before we resumed the 'racing line'. As racers, that is both the art of our craft, and the most rewarding part of our sport.

We've had this discussion on what is considered 'racing room', and the latest version of the GCR focuses on the responsibility of the passee. I think it should, as I think too often people believe racing room is only a requirement once someone has a fender on you. My version? Racing room starts when you anticipate someone will have their front wheel up to your rear wheel, going into the corner (rediculous dive bombs excluded). My approach may cause me to be passed more often than others, but it avoids getting myself punted, as well.

I wasn't at NHIS this past weekend, so my statements are solely based on what was posted. To be honest, what was stated got under my skin.

[WillM]

I don't usually post here, but do check in from time to time. I've run with the NER several times over the past few season in my ITA Miata. When I first arrived to the school DRIVING my car with a small trailer behind it, tech thought I was crazy.

"YOU DO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AT THESE EVENTS, RIGHT? WOW, AND YOU ARE IN ITA TO BOOT"

The Miata bashing is a compete joke. Comments that indicate typical Miata drivers are talentless hacks who use their "easy to drive" Miata to look like super heros are just laughable. Seriously. If you believe that, than you probably have bigger issues to deal with, not the least of which could involve compensating for any shortcomings attributed to your anatomy. Is this the distorted reality you cling to when you get passed by an "uber-Miata" piloted by a talentless hack? Jeez! How do you get through the night?!?!

Reading some of the posts on this forum, I have never been so let down by what I thought was a talented group of friendly racing buddies.

Jim is a stand-up guy and gentleman. Unlike several people I've met over the years, Jim had spent YEARS on-track in hot-lapping and time trial competition before even thinking about joining the SCCA and getting into wheel-to-wheel racing. From following him, I know he is a clean driver. I can't speak to this particular incident because I was not there. All I know about the incident is what I've read in this post. Worst case scenerio, it sounds like a mistake was made. Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?

Sounds like the stewards brought them in for a chat. Perfect! In my opinion, this is an improvement of leaps and bounds over past scenerios. I have witnessed plenty of mistakes and the unfortunate results of poor decision making in my relatively short years running in ITA. In my experience the Miata to "other car" involvement ratio is considerably lower than the ratio of Miata to "other car" list of ITA entrants.

I'm with Jerry. I'm an ITA guy first, and "Miata" guy second.

The Miata bashing is petty. Certainly we can find more constructive things to do with our time and improve OUR group. I've run wheel-to-wheel with several guys in the NER, lots of class-acts and friendly types, and I trust the tainted few do not speak for the silent majority. I've had tons of fun over the past few seasons, and look forward to doing so sometime soon.