IT National? Anyone else have this experience at a driver's meeting this year?

[MMiskoe]

Watching from the hill I see IT fading into twilight of dreams dying.
Go ahead, make it national and and kill it off, it's almost gone anyway.
phil

Out of curiosity, why do you see it this way?

Matt

[IPRESS]

You may disagree, but there is no doubt that going national would raise the price of poker in IT. It would attract more racers but for the most part these racers will be willing to spend more for national points. Going National skyrocketed SM costs. Yeah there were a few high dollar cars before, but some of that was done with knowledge that "national" classing was coming. SM costs at the top of the grid went up and continue to go up. Even the guys running at the back are spending more. It is a fact that if IT becomes a national class, overall the cost will soar. GOOD or BAD?

I myself like the class as it is. There are some spots to gather "national recognition" if that is your goal, but it is not a big enough "plumb" to attract the Runoffs type efforts in mass. Yeah some efforts are strong, but you don't feel you have to spend the kids college tuition to go to ARRC and have a great time. The Triple Crown sounds like a cool deal, but I don't see "HeinRicey" slipping over for a shot at that title. IT is just right like it is.

It just becomes a different mindset and therefore a higher ante when The Runoffs is put in the equation.

We have a great class now I would suggest not screwing it up.

[tnord]

I'm with Mac, and have the same perspective he does. Which shouldn't be a surprise, as we both used to run SM, and still hang around a core of SM guys.

My position on this is the same as it has been for years. I'm ok with IT going "National" only if the whole Regional/National distinction goes away completely and the top 24 or so make the big show.

[Knestis]

...My position on this is the same as it has been for years. I'm ok with IT going "National" only if the whole Regional/National distinction goes away completely and the top 24 or so make the big show.

I'm with you philosophically on making that artificial distinction disappear - I didn't understand it when I went to my first Club Race in 1979, and I don't understand it now.

On the other hand, if one subscribes to the "National = cost increase" hypothesis, wouldn't that aggravate it more, rather than reduce it? What am I missing?

K

[tnord]

I'm with you philosophically on making that artificial distinction disappear - I didn't understand it when I went to my first Club Race in 1979, and I don't understand it now.

On the other hand, if one subscribes to the "National = cost increase" hypothesis, wouldn't that aggravate it more, rather than reduce it? What am I missing?

K

nope, you're not missing anything kirk.

if this scenario were to play out i do believe the cost to maintain your current finishing position. the reason i'm ok with it is because i think it would be for the greater good of the club as a whole.

because i don't feel like being long winded and eloquent.....

too many classes = thin grids for everyone
no national/regional distinction + top 24 go = "market" forces at work and classes live and die out naturally

[shwah]

jjjanos,

Are you saying that the cost of competing at regional events will go up as well? I don't agree with that. I definitely see Production cars run at our regionals that are lower budget efforts than a good IT program. Someone that wants to stay regional would become more competitive without spending a dime.

The only argument I'm buying so far is shrinking grids, and it is relatively legit. I mean we are lucky to have 3 ITS cars around here, and the one that shows up every time is a pretty quick one at the ARRC, so he surely would move up. So would somone fill the void and get some easy wins in an underprepped car, or would ITS fade away for a while at our races?

[jjjanos]

jjjanos,

Are you saying that the cost of competing at regional events will go up as well? I don't agree with that. I definitely see Production cars run at our regionals that are lower budget efforts than a good IT program. Someone that wants to stay regional would become more competitive without spending a dime.

I respectfully disagree. See Spec Miata. Going national and attracting the fat fingers of Topeka and the attention of drivers with a certain attitude first dramatically increased the cost of a national program and it trickles its way down to Regionals.

Nor does the absence of competitors make a car/driver more competitive.

Some silly statements need correction. In 2007, all IT class entries (including those such as IT Truck which are region-specific classes not recognized in the GCR) totaled 6293. All regional entries were 22540 and all national entries were 9988. Thus, IT entries were 28% of regional entries and were 19% of all Club Racing entries.

Dave

Dave,

Not doubting, I just want the numbers - could you give a link or pm the car counts by class?

Thanks,

Jeff

[shwah]

too many classes = thin grids for everyone
no national/regional distinction + top 24 go = "market" forces at work and classes live and die out naturally

I agree with this, but I also think this is a much larger challenge to implement within the club, than changing the status of one category. It is really a separate issue, that we should start writing some letters about IMO.

[ddewhurst]

jjjaNos has it covered IMHJ.

****Dander: Topeka wants to suckle at the teat of the ARRC and ITFest. Having treated IT like a bastard step-child, unfit to associate with the gentry, I see no reason to recognize Topeka's attempt to invite us in to sit with civilized society since the only reason they are doing it is because they see us as a cash cow. Having completely fubared the Runoffs (tm) by allowing so many National classes to wither and then putting the patient into shock through Startline Steve's ramming Heartland Park down the club's throat, Topeka wants one thing and one thing only - our money. As it now stands, IT has its own "championships" and Topeka has got its panties in a knot because they aren't getting their blood money.****

IT cars ARE 70% of ALL entries for Club racing.

As we all know many Divisions could not make it if their Nationals didn't have restricted Regionals assocated with them. Golly ain't Restricted Regional called inviting IT cars.

Car counts have been sliding for a couple years from my eye viewing.

Is the U.S. in a recession or what ever you want to call it.

IT National WIIL raise the cost

IT National WILL lessen the Regional car count. (ala Spec Miata)

[AjG]

I really don’t think there are enough cars to support a split, at least not where I am. But, if IT did go National I think there should be a separation between national and regional drivers. IT Nat. could grow from an influx of Runoffs / big $ types and IT Reg. could grow in the absence of big $ as a entry level/lower budget/not willing to put that much effort in to it class.
It wouldn’t be fair for Nat. to take away car counts from Reg. and still have “national drivers” be able to act as spoilers in regional races. I don’t know if this has been suggested in SM or why it hasn’t.(?)
A national driver could still run regionals, just not place.
Could be something like ‘If you run more than two nationals a year then you are a national driver’
Or better yet we could have a ‘paddock checklist’, if you have 3 or more of the following, you can’t place in regional race: data acquisition, fancy-schmancy stick-on graphics, someone other than yourself that works on your car (other drivers excluded), Hoosier rains, communication system, someone to communicate with on communication system, dedicated pit bike/transportation, enclosed trailer with black and white checkered floor, hmm.. What else???

[shwah]

Our division's 'regional' points series is just that. If you compete in the runoffs in your class, you are not eligible for competition in the regional points series, so a national driver coming to 'test' at a RA regional a week before the June Sprints does not play spoiler to the regional racers in national classes around here.

[rabbidmk1]

Or better yet we could have a ‘paddock checklist’, if you have 3 or more of the following, you can’t place in regional race: data acquisition, fancy-schmancy stick-on graphics, someone other than yourself that works on your car (other drivers excluded), Hoosier rains, communication system, someone to communicate with on communication system, dedicated pit bike/transportation, enclosed trailer with black and white checkered floor, hmm.. What else???

This comment really offends me. I have every one of these listed items that you seem to deem unfair excluding the hoosier rains. What does any of this have to do with making someone eligible to race a regional? I am 24 years old and have raced IT for 7 years now. Just as of recently I have been blessed with friend who likes to work on cars and cannot afford to race them, an enclosed trailer which I installed the checker floor in and have now rigged up a communication system that I scrounged up for free. I am racing on a college student, under 30K a year salary. Yes I am a front runner, but NONE of these items are what make me fast, they just make life at the track a little easier. And how do "fancy vinyl" have to do with going fast. OK, I'll take all of mine off to please you but just know that all of my sponsors will pull their support which would make it near impossible to race ever again. Get a clue... :026:



I vote to go national. I already spend enough $$$ where I am at and would look forward to racing with people who want to put equal effort and time into working towards further improvement or advancement.

[Knestis]

This comment really offends me. I have every one of these listed items that you seem to deem unfair excluding the hoosier rains. What does any of this have to do with making someone eligible to race a regional? ...

Yeah, Aaron - I tried to ignore that post when it went up, figuring it MUST be tongue in cheek, but if it were serious I sure agree.

The interesting thing about humor (presuming for a minute that it was meant to be funny) is that there is typically some nugget of truth embedded in the lie or exaggeration. In this case, the subtext is a comment that people that take particular steps to be competitive - implicitly spending the $$ to do so - shouldn't be allowed to play in the "little races." It's goes hand-in-hand with the term "elites," used here a few posts ago. It's racing class warfare.

My Hoosier wets, DL1, and radio are part of a scheme to keep the everyman under my thumb.



K

[JeffYoung]

Kirk Knestis - keeping buggy drivers down since 1984.

And to think he wanted to throw me in the 'sippi without a DL1.