Agree. Repairing it back to stock, legal. Strengthening it, not legal.
Agree. Repairing it back to stock, legal. Strengthening it, not legal.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Jeff, you can't repair something back to stock, It is impossible. As soon as you weld a spot you are strengthing it and it now becomes a non stock item. It would be also not the recommended repair from the manufacturer, if we are talking BMW's look in any of the repair manuals. There has to be an allowance to repair, say the control arms or body suspension points with out having to replace them new? Or are you saying if the body cracks from stress you have to replace it?
I won't lie, this issue has come up before. It's a problem. There are safety issues for you guys, but at the same time, arguments are being made that a known weak point can either be corrected prior to failure or strengthened after failure "cause the manual says so."
I have brake caliper seal failures. Should I be allowed to correct that with non sock parts?
In my view, you are of course allowed to fix, but the fix can ONLY be enough to repair the issue and no more. I've seen websites were far more than that was done to an IT car, and I didn't like the looks of it.
But it is a difficult issue, I know.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
My 1st ARRC in 2005 I missed a shift (totally my fault, got inpatient) and blew the engine, but upon the year end inspection we noticed that the left rear shock was ready to punch through the fender mount! If I would have blown the engine in the 6th or 7th lap who knows what would have happened. BMW makes a repair plate for this. So as of today, I have not made any other mods to the car, only the 1 repair. I agree that you only make the repairs and not do the strengthing before the repair is needed.IMO
There was a long discussion about this very issue maybe three years ago. And it is tricky because it can be a safety issue no doubt. BUT, the repair needs to be made based on the factory manual. And if I recall (granted, it was three years ago so I'm a little fuzzy) the factory manual didn't mention reinforement of the area and anything more than welding the crack was deemed illegal.
There's tons of examples like this: Such as the 944 control arms and GTi front bearings. And reliability/PM is part of being fast. Every car has its weeknesses. We need to know what they are and keep an eye on them, not just go ahead and make an illegal fix in the name of safety......
.
Jeff L
ITA Miata
2010 NARRC Champion
2007 NERRC Championship, 2nd place
2008 NARRC Championship, 2nd place
2009 NARRC Championship, 2nd place
Control arms & wheel bearings can be replaced. How do you replace a body of a car? How do you repair a body of a car? BMW specifically made the body replacement plates for these repairs and they have BMW part numbers. If your control arm cracks and it is aluminum, go ahead and repair it, if you dare. Anyone who has welded knows that the welds are suppose to be stronger than the parant metal. Fabcar control arms not a factory replacement part or repair.
Dan, I think we are on the same page. Obviously, if the subframe mounts pull loose an E36, you fix them by welding in a replacement metal plate. That is in my mind legal. Two things are not:
1. Performing the repair prior to a failure.
2. Doing anything other than what is minimally necessary to fix the issue.
But again, I think that is what you said and I believe that both Jeff L. and I would agree that is legal.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Hey,
One last question, what wheels have you BMW guys been running? What size / offset / width etc?
I was looking at tire rack and noticed Kosei K1 are fairly inexpensive and 15lbs. BBS are expensive and 20lbs. What's on your street cars? Looking at the bimmer forums there's alot of wheels trading around. The Kosei's cost almost half what my panasports cost.
Tom
Last edited by Tom Donnelly; 03-07-2008 at 06:18 PM.
why wait until failure? and how is failure defined? is it when the mount rips our in a high speed corner and causes a crash? is it when you think you might be able to see something that might be a crack? and how do you tell after the repair has been done whether or not there was a prior failure?
bottom line, nobody wants to wait until ultimate failure...dangerous and 10x more difficult to fix. if the repair is a standard factory procedure and uses standard factory parts i don't see a problem with doing it prior to catastrophic incident. non standard "creative' preventative repairs...no way. standard factory fixes for known issues..go for it.
Build vs Buy. Buy is better every time, I agree. And I already have one race car. But I can dream anyway. Build one car while running another? Doubt that too, it's hard to serve two masters!
Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. When I pick up a car I'll post what I got.
M3 vs 325 vs 330 vs 328 vs 323. Its a tough job but somebody's got to do it. I've ruled
out the '62 Ferarri GTO, the '73 Porsche 911 RSR IROC, the '67 Cobra 427 side oiler and the '72 MGB so that narrows it down quite a bit...
Oh, I forgot about the '70 convertible hemi 'Cuda and the '70 302 Boss Trans-Am Mustang and the '69 302 Trans-Am Camaro and the UOP Shadow and the 917K and the.....
Tom
How come the 323 (E46) is listed for ITS but not ITR? And why 3000 lbs but no SIR?
The E-46 is in one class like every other IT car except the evil E-36.
Same brakes, same transmission, 19 less stock hp. 3,000lbs based on certain adders this particular car gets. What those adders are remain somewhat of a mystery to me. My opinion is the E-46 should be 2,900 in ITS
Rob Driscoll
ITS 25
NER
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