OH MY GOD, V8's in ITR

[Rabbit05]

I am a die hard VW fan , but a running a Ford in IT trim would certainly interest me ! A.S. rules are out of control and I could never afford to build one. Why not let them into ITR ? I have had to run against high power ITA cars against my ITC car. They would blow by me in the straights and I would catch them in the corners... I have run in SM , and I have run against SM in my Rabbit (r.i.p). Spec classes are fun to race in....IMO..

BUT that is why I am drawn to IT , The diversity in cars , makes , models...difference in perforemance capabilities...I mean V8's , I-6's , those rotory do-hickys, high power I-4's , thats a cool looking class if you ask me, and as a spectator I would love to watch that race.....Look at Grand Am's GS/St classes...great competition !

I say bring on the Pony cars...



I am off to the dirt track to go find me a 'tang !


-John

[JeffYoung]

And as I read it, posts like the above are running about 10 to 2 in favor of the V8s in ITR.

[Rabbit07]

According to the fastrack I was the only one who wrote an email supporting the idea. Can we get some more emails going in support of the V8s?

[JLawton]

According to the fastrack I was the only one who wrote an email supporting the idea. Can we get some more emails going in support of the V8s?

Guilty as charged. I just shot one out in support.

[GKR_17]

I'm all for letting the V8's in R, as long as they go through the process. The same should be true for every car. Don't forget the Rx-8, there's a contingent at work trying to get it classed for next season at around 2700 lbs - a car with 238 hp stock. There won't be any diversity in R if that happens.

Grafton

[JeffYoung]

Teh request to class them was at process weight.....I can't remember the specific numbers, but around 3200/3300 I think.

On the RX8, I wrote the proposal for that and gave it to anyone who wanted to see it, including you Grafton. No secret contingent involved.

I have no interest in racing an RX8. None. Zip. Hate rotaries. But to me, it is one of the quintessential cars that must be in the class, along with the 944S2, the 328/330i and the 330ZX.

The issue on the RX8 and weight is really very simple. There is a lot of verifiable data out there to prove that (a) 238 stock hp is WAY optimistic on those cars, adn that most stock RX8s dyno in the 170-175 whp range and (b) the Renesis doesn't benefit from IT prep gains like other motors.

Grafton, if you and Ben or others have real data to rebut that evidence, I'd love to see it and would adjust my views on the car's proposed weight accordingly. More importantly, submit it to the ITAC for consideration.

[GKR_17]

On the RX8, I wrote the proposal for that and gave it to anyone who wanted to see it, including you Grafton. No secret contingent involved.

I have no interest in racing an RX8. None. Zip. Hate rotaries. But to me, it is one of the quintessential cars that must be in the class, along with the 944S2, the 328/330i and the 330ZX.

The issue on the RX8 and weight is really very simple. There is a lot of verifiable data out there to prove that (a) 238 stock hp is WAY optimistic on those cars, adn that most stock RX8s dyno in the 170-175 whp range and (b) the Renesis doesn't benefit from IT prep gains like other motors.

Grafton, if you and Ben or others have real data to rebut that evidence, I'd love to see it and would adjust my views on the car's proposed weight accordingly. More importantly, submit it to the ITAC for consideration.

Jeff,

I must say I'm surprised that you'd be so quick to spec a car outside of the process since you've been touting the great changes since its implementation. Up to now, every car in ITR has been through it, I see no reason to change that (for V-8's or rotaries).

On paper the Rx-8 is very similar to the S2000. Both have high power, high rpm, low torque motors. Actual published performance numbers slightly favor the Honda, but don't forget that it's over 200 lbs lighter from the factory. When it was classed the S2000 received the lowest expected hp gain at 15%. The Renesis may be highly tweaked already, but there are clearly still improvements to be made. I seem to recall an ITAC member stating that 15% gain was as low as they were willing to go, I hope this holds true.

As for the mass of verifiable data, I will concede that it can be useful to show that this engine won't see the improvements previously found in the 12a and 13b versions. However, no matter how honorable the intentions, this data is highly suspect. All of the numbers I've seen were either from disgruntled performance types (trying to show a car didn't meet spec) or a potential racer/builder with an obvious bias to have the car classed as light as possible. In either case, the data supplier's case is better stated if the numbers are lower. I will be glad to put a stock Rx-8 on a Dynapak and show it can make well over 200 at the wheels. That data may not be believable either, but that's my point.

Let's not forget that the same car whose dyno sheet is in question here was said to be competitive with E46 330 BMW's. The Rx-8 at 2650lbs, and the 330 at 2875 lbs. As you know, the 330 is speced at 3290 in ITR. Granted that was another series with different prep rules, but the same could be said of the dyno data.

Here's another question: what are the best ITS Rx-7 putting down? Better than 180whp I believe(starting stock at 160 hp at the crank). The claim seems to be that a full prep Rx-8 only makes 197whp. I don't buy it.

The process has shown to be a good thing so far, let's not jump ship so soon.

Grafton