MR2 in ITB?

[gran racing]

I think one issue I have is why would the change be made now but not before[/b]

Some of these cars were not moved because of the previous cage rules.

Gesh Ray, I haven't even completed my first race with my new baby and you already want to add weight to my car?

[RSTPerformance]

Dave-

lol Just giving you some crap I need to loose weight is the reality!!! lol

As for the cage rule, I am hesitant the cage thing is the only issue keeping the car from moving to ITB. If I was then I am disapointed as the the reasons for the denial before. The "cage issue" should have been put out for member input. We (SCCA) knows who has been driving MR2's and SCCA should have sent out a letter to all those who may have raced one in the last couple years to see if they would want to make a change to thier cage or stay in ITA. It seems crazy that the ITAC has the knowledge to know what others are thinking, certainly they should set things up but they need to go out for more member input in things like this IF this is the only reasoning to deny the change from ITA ->ITB for the MR2.

Why was it not posted in "Fast track" before when letters were recieved (and if it was please let me know) that the car does fit perfect into ITB at X weight but because of the changes required to the cage it does not make sence to make the move at this time?

Raymond "If I missed it before (And I may have) then please let me know..." Blethen

[mattbatson]

I still cannot help but think that all of the issues with this would be resolved with dual classification.

Why is dual classification so taboo?

What are the problems/disadvantages to this?

[Knestis]

Depends who you ask. I'll let the 'pro' voice go first. The 'con' position is thick with opportunties for them to play the 'you can't guarantee that bad things will happen' card.

K

[Jake]

Adding weight? Which would you rather, try to figure out how you can lose all of that weight or put parts back in the can / lead to attain a weight? I thought you were pushing for the latter, no? Either you want it or you don't.
[/b]

Not wavering here Dave - I just need to figure out how to put in the weight safely.

[lateapex911]

Dave-

. We (SCCA) knows who has been driving MR2's and SCCA should have sent out a letter to all those who may have raced one in the last couple years to see if they would want to make a change to thier cage or stay in ITA. [/b]

Ummm, actually, weve been sending out ITAC members, but the budget ran out.

Come on, as Andy says, focus!

In the past, when a car was too heavy for the class below it, it wasn't likley to get moved, especially when it's old, and also when there are other places in the SCCA empire that are known popular hangouts, like IT7.

[Jake]

So what now? Do I need to write another letter?

[captdanh]

I don't understand why the MR2 cannot be moved to ITB. If you look at the class table on Jakes site, there are 15 ITB cars with a better power to weight ratio than the MR2.
Are Jake and the other MR2 drivers beating all of the ITB competition, or running faster lap times than all of the ITB cars when they race? If not, what is there to consider? Move it down.

[Knestis]

Request it. Run it by an ITAC member for a back-channel math review, if it's in the ballpark and everything aligns, write the letter requesting the change. I seem to remember that the MR2 was one of the cage-tube losers and that should be a non-issue now, right...?

K

[Jake]

At least three MR2 folks wrote letters last month.

Run it by an ITAC member for a back-channel math review
[/b]

Done on page 1 of this thread.

[Spinnetti]

At least three MR2 folks wrote letters last month.
Done on page 1 of this thread.
[/b]

So does my 85 Corolla GT-S get pulled along too? (I'd hate to get a big weight penalty to go with it as the top B cars are as fast as my car already).

[Knestis]

I totally support the Corolla getting a look for B, too but please recognize that how fast B cars that you see are in comparison to you, has no bearing on the weight process. You get whatever weight the process says you should.

K

[Spinnetti]

I totally support the Corolla getting a look for B, too but please recognize that how fast B cars that you see are in comparison to you, has no bearing on the weight process. You get whatever weight the process says you should.

K
[/b]

Is this is the same "process" that has left practically every Toyota outclassed (wherever they are) in the last 20 years or so? - I'm not seriously challenging the process as I know the club does the best it can - especially for Honda

Seriously though, yeah, I know. I have kind of mixed feelings. I don't want to carry 1/2 ton of lead and buy two new sets of wheels to drop a class. I'd probably rather be mid/upper mid pack and stay where I am (Haven't run the last 5 years, and was just catching up on all the rules changes to give it another go).


I'm not actually too worried one way or another. If the weight is too high, I'd just run in ITE so I can at least still enjoy my car, or drop out and run other places or just track days... So many changes over the last few years that I'm not sure it worth trying to keep up with it all.... I prefer rules stability to most of the changes over the last decade anyway.

I'll wait and see - will be interesting how it all sorts out.

[dickita15]

Is this is the same "process" that has left practically every Toyota outclassed (wherever they are) in the last 20 years or so? - I'm not seriously challenging the process as I know the club does the best it can - especially for Honda [/b]

No you can only blame the last two or three years on the process. Before that there was either no process or the process was secret. Kudos to the ITAC for actually developing a process over the last few years even if we still have some gripes with how it is applied now and then.

Seriously though, yeah, I know. I have kind of mixed feelings. I don't want to carry 1/2 ton of lead and buy two new sets of wheels to drop a class. I'd probably rather be mid/upper mid pack and stay where I am (Haven't run the last 5 years, and was just catching up on all the rules changes to give it another go).
I'm not actually too worried one way or another. If the weight is too high, I'd just run in ITE so I can at least still enjoy my car, or drop out and run other places or just track days... So many changes over the last few years that I'm not sure it worth trying to keep up with it all.... I prefer rules stability to most of the changes over the last decade anyway.
[/b]

This is why I would like to see dual classification. If a car fits safely in two classes at two different weights why not class it in both. Let the market decide. No matter which class the ITAC picks for a “tweener” they will make some of their constituency unhappy.

[Spinnetti]

No you can only blame the last two or three years on the process. Before that there was either no process or the process was secret. Kudos to the ITAC for actually developing a process over the last few years even if we still have some gripes with how it is applied now and then.
This is why I would like to see dual classification. If a car fits safely in two classes at two different weights why not class it in both. Let the market decide. No matter which class the ITAC picks for a “tweener” they will make some of their constituency unhappy.
[/b]

Ah, good point.. prolly the best thing to do for the tweeners actually...

[captdanh]

I have a question. Has anyone ever built and fully developed an MR2 to the full extent of the rules?
If so, how did it do against other ITA competition? If not, maybe that is why the ITAC or CRB is reluctant to move it to ITB.

[Jake]

Yes they have.... I've sent dyno numbers and other info before. Midpack at best even with one driver that is a semi-professional.

Jake

[dickita15]

I have a question. Has anyone ever built and fully developed an MR2 to the full extent of the rules?
If so, how did it do against other ITA competition? If not, maybe that is why the ITAC or CRB is reluctant to move it to ITB.
[/b]

Remember this is not Production, on track performance might be a catalyst to look at a car but should not be the reason to class it in a given class. We use a process. Trust the process.

[Knestis]

What Dick said, captdanh...

There's a very fundamental philosophy at work in IT, that a lot of folks have been protecting furiously for years - that cars get classified where their mechanical attributes suggests they should, at weights intended to be reasonably equitable. Competitiveness then falls out of that, since there's absolutely NO valid and reliable way to determine if the CAR is correctly spec'd based on lap times or finishes - which are an outcome influenced by the car, driver, tires, testing, engineering, preparation, etc., etc., etc.

K