NISMO Z Header - any count?

[Ron Earp]

Are the original NISMO Z headers any good for a IT race car? I don't know much about the headers, but they are available from time to time. I don't know what I have on the 260Z right now, but it doesn't look like much, maybe a Hooker or something like that. Not sure.

If the NISMO piece isn't any good where can one source a good Z header?

Ron

[Parrish57]

Ron.... I used to use a header that was a copy of the NISMO but was a step header. It had slightly smaller primaries. That gave it a lot more torque but cost about 2 peak HP. I got it from Sam Moore. It worked well but I later switched to the Sam Neave header. I haven't been able to do side by side dyno evaluations but it appears that HP is much higher. And the sound is SWEET!

[jmark]

Sam Neave's site

http://home.earthlink.net/~samneavelna/

[Ron Earp]

Yep, I have been talking to Sam and he has one available, supposed to let me know if it is sold or not. I'll have to follow up with him on that.

Steve, do you run the two banks for a good while after the header, or do you join them straightaway? Do you use a muffler?

I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get.

I'll have a good look at the one on the 260 this weekend, but I don't think it is a good looking header from visual inspection.

Ron

[jmark]

Here is Greg Ira's EP 240Z at VIR with Sam's header.

[Parrish57]

Ron... When I first ran the Nismo style header I had a collector that went right from the two 2 1/2's to a single 3 inch. From there I went all the way out the back of the car to the stock exhaust location. I used a very small Bullit muffler to keep the sound down. And boy did it ever. It was one of the quietest cars on the track. I later changed to a much shorter pipe that exited just in front of the RR tire. That cut the weight of the system in half, eliminated the muffler, and shifted the weight to the right side of the car. All were improvements. The downside of exiting on the right side is smacking the asphalt on transition to the banking at Lowes and Rockingham.

When I switched to the Neave header I adapted my exhaust to his single 2 1/2 collector. I think the better thing to do would have been to start over, but it was so very close that I went cheap. With this set up my sound readings are about 96-97 db. As for the corect length of the exhaust, Sam has done a lot of homework on that, including extensive dyno testing. I don't know the exact length off hand but if you ran a straight pipe that ended right at the differential you would be very close.

Mark... Greg's car sounds SWEET!!!!!!

[kthomas]

"I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get."

I am curious to know if he asks for the cam lobe profile and intake runner lengths. If not, he ain't gonna get anything useful. Let us know what he comes up with and I'll compare it to what we know.

The smaller Nismo header at 1-5/8 OD primaries, is still too big for an ITS motor. The stepped Nismo, as sold by RallyeSport and Rebombo, er I mean Rebello, would be better at 1-1/2 for the whole length. They're too big too, but a step in the right direction. The only thing I don't like about the Nismo layout is the collectors (oh, they're too big also) make it very difficult to equalize the lengths of the secondaries.

The Sam Neave header if 1-1/2 could be one of the best commercially available options at this point. We never tested one, but it is very similar to an old Clifford Research, which was probably the closest thing in performance to our ARRC header.

Regardless of what you run the key is to optimize your mixture for best power. That means real instrumentation and dyno time.

[Cobra Tim]

"I have on my GT40s.com forum a fellow who is an exhaust consultant for GM, does special projects for them, and he said he'd do the flow calculations, proper lenghts for intended use, etc. once I provide him with all the info he needs. Of course I'll share it here as well whatever I get."

I am curious to know if he asks for the cam lobe profile and intake runner lengths. If not, he ain't gonna get anything useful. Let us know what he comes up with and I'll compare it to what we know.

The smaller Nismo header at 1-5/8 OD primaries, is still too big for an ITS motor. The stepped Nismo, as sold by RallyeSport and Rebombo, er I mean Rebello, would be better at 1-1/2 for the whole length. They're too big too, but a step in the right direction. The only thing I don't like about the Nismo layout is the collectors (oh, they're too big also) make it very difficult to equalize the lengths of the secondaries.

The Sam Neave header if 1-1/2 could be one of the best commercially available options at this point. We never tested one, but it is very similar to an old Clifford Research, which was probably the closest thing in performance to our ARRC header.

Regardless of what you run the key is to optimize your mixture for best power. That means real instrumentation and dyno time.
[/b]

A few months ago we were swapping emails discussing the Clifford Research header and exhaust layouts. A little over a month ago we got the header installed and fabricated the secondaries into a flowmaster 2-1 collector. I then ran a few feet of 2 1/2 piping to an ultraflow muffler that dumps right before the rear axle. Not only does this system out perform the old MSA header, but its sounds real sweet. I just wanted to thank you for your help.

Ive seen both of Gregs cars several times (I pitted for him and Guy at the 12 hours of homestead a few years back when they ran and won with the ITS car) and they both make plenty of power for their classes. With Sams recent track record, Im thinking about having him build and ITS 240 motor, and even some work on our BRE (Yes... A REAL BRE car) roadster U20.

[Ron Earp]

Katman, RE: calculations Adam is very meticulous and I'm trying to collect all the info for him. I have some of it, but some of it I have to find/measure. I also need to learn more about the header I have. The car came from the Atlanta region and the more I look at it the more it appears to be something someone fabricated, not a off the shelf piece. Looks a little "rough" for a NISMO or brand name header. I do want to measure it and check it out but I've some other issues that popped up this week that need curing......

I put a 2.5" side exit pipe on the car but it has a muffler that is fairly restrictive I think. If I can ditch that for CMP I will, drop a little weight too. I know yours has the power and sounds good, that is certain. I've got a lot of tuning to do on this motor as well since I'm basically starting at square one.

We had a little off in school that caused some damage this weekend but I think that I can get it all back together in time for CMP. Sure hope so!

Ron

[Joe Harlan]

Katman, RE: calculations Adam is very meticulous and I'm trying to collect all the info for him. I have some of it, but some of it I have to find/measure. I also need to learn more about the header I have. The car came from the Atlanta region and the more I look at it the more it appears to be something someone fabricated, not a off the shelf piece. Looks a little "rough" for a NISMO or brand name header. I do want to measure it and check it out but I've some other issues that popped up this week that need curing......

I put a 2.5" side exit pipe on the car but it has a muffler that is fairly restrictive I think. If I can ditch that for CMP I will, drop a little weight too. I know yours has the power and sounds good, that is certain. I've got a lot of tuning to do on this motor as well since I'm basically starting at square one.

We had a little off in school that caused some damage this weekend but I think that I can get it all back together in time for CMP. Sure hope so!

Ron
[/b]

Ron, can you post a photo of the header you are using?

Joe

[Ron Earp]

Yep, should be able to this week when I'm working on the car for CMP. It has some ratty header blanket/wrap thing on it that hides most of it which is why I haven't had a good look at it. You Z guys might be able to look at it and instantly say "oh, that's a XYZ header" but I don't have that experience.

I'll get it off the trailer Tuesday and up Tuesday night, get some pictures. Right now I'll look at photos of the car I have and see if there is a picture in there. Nope, all I've got is this "pre-fire picture" and you can't see squat there. You can see that rubbed off VIN plate where some previous owner passed this thing off as a 240Z though - check that on the right fender over there. Says "Max Power 151hp at....." and then it is rubbed out, as well as the type of car.

Thanks,
Ron

[kthomas]

"I'll get it off the trailer Tuesday and up Tuesday night, get some pictures"

Got Pics?

[[email protected]]

I have a Nismo copy with the 1.5" step and 2.25" collectors in the for sale area. Ran well, when everything else worked I ran as high as 2nd at Lowes. And if you have seen me drive, you know that it was hp related, not driver.

I am currently running a header I build based on some discussions I had with some folks who were involved with some championship cars. I have not run it on the dyno yet, but I know I frustrated some SRF's at VIR last fall due to a slow driver and a rocket ship on the straights. What can I say, I hadn't been on any track in 18 months and that track in 2 years.

If you are interested in the stepped nismo copy I can make you an unbelieveable deal!

Mike

[x-ring]

Mike -

I'll take it. Oh, how much do you want for it? LOL

email me at work if you would. I'll PM you my work address.

[JeffYoung]

Keith, Ron and I have both been on the road the last few weeks. We'll get some pictures this weekend and post them up.

Mike, might be interested in that header as well.

[x-ring]

Mike, might be interested in that header as well.
[/b]

Too late. Deal is done and the check is on the way.

You snooze you loose, dude. :P

Besides, I NEED it. I'm using some pacesetter / hooker / hedman POS now that was on the car when I got it. I'd probably be better off with a factory cast manifold than what I have now.

[JeffYoung]

LOL..all yours Ty. I was hoping Mike could be convinced to possibly construct antother??

[Parrish57]

Jeff, Ron, et al. All is not lost.. I too have a Nismo copy 1.5 primary with 2.5 collectors that is in the scap heap... Er, premium sale shelf! I'll even throw in a FREE set of steel drums with the purchase of this fine header. But wait! There's more! Order now and I'll wrap your Nismo copy header with a space age heat barrier! Operator is standing by! 803-327-9157

Steve's Used Headers

p.s. I was going to post pix of both the nismo and the Sam Neave header in the next few days. The Sam's header is out of the car (as is the motor).

[Ron Earp]

Put up some pics, like to see that. We've a buddy who could use those headers on his new Z build - another one will join the ranks in the SE. He's on the cheap those if you are parting with them that'll fit the bill! I shot you a PM on those.


R

[JeffYoung]

Who in teh world would run crappy steel drums?? lol..