Attn: SARRC Drivers

[EYERACE]

Bulletin Board threads in racing forums are occasionally suggestions trying to make things better for the driver or for competition or to equalize things or contain costs....or more stuff like that.......but all too often all that happens is those at that specific site rant/spout/etc. about theidea and nothing changes. Every once in a while a positive outcome occurs, so the various efforts are not to be belittled.

I have a beef with the SARRC Invitational Championship races.......but also think posting the beef/idea/suggestion/solution hare will result in it being seen by we that race but by virtually none that organize and put on the race.

Therefore - please link to http://www.scca.org/garage/forum/for...ics.asp?FID=37

At least at times the some SCCA officials do look at that website

[tom_sprecher]

On behalf of the rest of the SARRC Committee eye am all ears. What is your beef? Do you have another thread on ApexSpeed on this same subject? If so give me the link and a chance to read it and I'll see what we can do. Otherwise, state your case here and the same will apply.

[cmaclean]

Linky no worky. So what's the issue?

[seckerich]

Could it be the stupid triple point crap that makes a championship a joke.

[zracre]

I would like to see the SIC rotated to different tracks...it is no secret that certain cars do better at Roebling than others. Road Atlanta Sebring VIR Homestead etc...there are many cool tracks in the SE It would be nice for a rotation deal.

My 2 cents

[pballance]

I did a little checking with the link(that doesn't work) and it leads to the SEDIV section of the forum. The poster (EYERACE) has started a poll. You can view it at:

http://www.scca.org/garage/forum/forum_pos...p?TID=4851&PN=1

Here is the text included with the poll:

"The SARRC Invitational Championship races have been in conformance with SARRC rules by being 30 minutes or 30 miles in length. At Roebling Road Raceway [2.02 mile long] the SIC races have been something like 15 laps which does make them legit by the rules.....a little over 30 miles. A quick formula car can turn a lap at Roebling in roughly 1:10....so the Championship race could be as short a time as 18 minutes. I don't believe there is a class that takes 2 minutes to complete a lap at Roebling. Other races during the season are as long as 30 minutes in length; some races are not 30 minutes but, by rule, the SARRC race is still the longest race of that race weekend. It does not seem right to me that the Championship race should be a lesser test than earlier events of the series. I therefore would like opinions on the length of the SARRC Championship race. Sure this idea impacts the rest of the schedule so.....shorten all qualifying sessions [there are 2 sessions per class] by 5 minutes, if need be, to accommodate the 2 day schedule......or eliminate the early Sunday morning hardship session.....or something else [like start on time?] to allow 30 minute races but there is a way to have the races be longer"

I think it a little odd that EYERACE chose not to air his question/beef here. Even though he couches what he says about internet boards. I have found that the powers that be listen AND post here. Why not jsut state your complaint in both places? Oh well..

FWIW, your mileage may vary,....

[Butch Kummer]

Steve,

The triple points for the SIC was only tried for a couple of years - it's now back to double points. While some complain about that, it DOES provide incentive to attend the SIC.

I did a survey about five years ago about the SARRC series, and one of the items was rotating the SIC among various tracks. The vote was about 50/50. The other downside is that the SIC is NOT a particularly lucrative event since it is an invitation only race. I know that I have skipped it in the past when I had no reasonable shot at winning the championship, plus Roebling is NOT my favorite track in SEDIV.

All that said, the SARRC Committee (as Brother Sprecher has mentioned) is all ears when it comes to suggestions about the series. I'd like for the SIC races to be "more" than a typical regional (like the ARRC is), but I've not looked at the weekend schedule to see how that could be done.

[seckerich]

Steve,

The triple points for the SIC was only tried for a couple of years - it's now back to double points. While some complain about that, it DOES provide incentive to attend the SIC.

I did a survey about five years ago about the SARRC series, and one of the items was rotating the SIC among various tracks. The vote was about 50/50. The other downside is that the SIC is NOT a particularly lucrative event since it is an invitation only race. I know that I have skipped it in the past when I had no reasonable shot at winning the championship, plus Roebling is NOT my favorite track in SEDIV.

All that said, the SARRC Committee (as Brother Sprecher has mentioned) is all ears when it comes to suggestions about the series. I'd like for the SIC races to be "more" than a typical regional (like the ARRC is), but I've not looked at the weekend schedule to see how that could be done.
[/b]

I understand the points Butch. With the double points and the SIC as a tie breaker it is still triple points. Spin it any way you want. It still does not place enough weight on what the drivers do all year. If two drivers come in maxed in points and someone can win that never got closer than third to these drivers all year--something is wrong. What is more important--attendance at the SIC or picking a SARRC champion? The tie breaker should use something that takes into account the overall performance for the year--not just one race. I never bothered with the triple points years and would not bother again under the current system. With the number of races we have in a year 6 max counting for points needs to go up.

[Butch Kummer]

Points understood, Steve, but I'd also like to see how many times a person who never finished better than third coming into the SIC won the championship. I know that if I could win the title without ever going to Roebling I'd do it, but them's the rules we play with right now.

I know this has been a point of discussion for a number of years. Let your SARRC Rep know how you feel and s/he will take it up with the SARRC Committee (I'm no longer on the committee). We need a good controversy to get the SARRC drivers stirred up again.

[seckerich]

Points understood, Steve, but I'd also like to see how many times a person who never finished better than third coming into the SIC won the championship. I know that if I could win the title without ever going to Roebling I'd do it, but them's the rules we play with right now.

I know this has been a point of discussion for a number of years. Let your SARRC Rep know how you feel and s/he will take it up with the SARRC Committee (I'm no longer on the committee). We need a good controversy to get the SARRC drivers stirred up again.
[/b]

Should not be a problem Butch--I'm our new SARRC rep.

[DavidM]

I actually like the SIC being double points. I think it provides incentive for people to come and race against each other. The biggest problem with the SARRC series (and it's not really a problem, just the way things are) is that people never have to race each other to win the series. Somebody in FL and somebody in SC could win all their races, but never race each other. I think making the SIC double points provides incentive for those guys to come and race each other and decide the championship on the track. Yea, if you have a crappy weekend or your car blows up then you could lose the series because of one race, but that's the risk.

Roebling does favor certain cars, however. So rotating the SIC around tracks would give different cars an advantage depending on the year. It'd be hard to use tracks at the edges of the region though since that could mean a really long haul.

My $.005.

David

[seckerich]

We have 23 points paying races and the SIC and we can only count 6? This is barely 1/4 of the races and we call it a championship? How can this not hurt attendance at the regular SARRC races in favor of propping up the SIC. Do the math, it is a waste of time to race after you get 6 wins except to keep anyone else from getting points. Then it only takes 4 wins to get a championship.

[JeffYoung]

I would be in favor of more races counting towards the championship, and having the SIC move around.

I do think the double points helps get people to come out and gives the weekend some drama.

[tom_sprecher]

We have 23 points paying races and the SIC and we can only count 6? This is barely 1/4 of the races and we call it a championship? How can this not hurt attendance at the regular SARRC races in favor of propping up the SIC. Do the math, it is a waste of time to race after you get 6 wins except to keep anyone else from getting points. Then it only takes 4 wins to get a championship.
[/b]

Come up with a poll on this forum as well as Apexspeed.com, prodracing.com and the Spec Miata forum and see what the response is. Other than changing the points structure a few years ago (doubled the points for a race allowing rewarded points farther back in the field) I have not heard anyone complain about the current system.

Looking at the results the majority of racers run 5 races or less except the guys who care about the points and the series in general. Once maxed out they tend to run past the 6 wins for the reason you just stated. They also race just to race and don't care if they're maxed out in points. The extra point weight for the SIC is to make it more desirable to attend and to differentiate it from just another regional SARRC race.

If you believe you have a better system feel free to share it here and with your fellow SARRC Reps. You can find them at SARRC Officials. We are all here to make the SARRC the best series possible.

[Fastfred92]

Roebling does favor certain cars, however. So rotating the SIC around tracks would give different cars an advantage depending on the year. It'd be hard to use tracks at the edges of the region though since that could mean a really long haul.

[/b]

I think Road Atlanta would be a nice "in the middle" location for the SIC! I voted to have Roebling plowed up, not repaved!!!! Not that I am bitter about loosing a SAARC championship at that track or anything

[zracre]

Points understood, Steve, but I'd also like to see how many times a person who never finished better than third coming into the SIC won the championship. I know that if I could win the title without ever going to Roebling I'd do it, but them's the rules we play with right now.

I know this has been a point of discussion for a number of years. Let your SARRC Rep know how you feel and s/he will take it up with the SARRC Committee (I'm no longer on the committee). We need a good controversy to get the SARRC drivers stirred up again.
[/b]

In '05 I came to Roebling for the first time at the SIC (4th in points) and was able to pull an upset victory. The guy in first (points) finished 4th and I won. It was alot of luck on my part but it happened I would be all for Road Atlanta! I bet the attendance would be up to! (even though it is about the same tow for me as it is for the New England guys/gals). That way I can remain undefeated at Roebling Also like previously stated...some cars like Roebling some don't.