how to estimate potential competitiveness?

[lateapex911]

I think part of your post might be MIA, but i think you are asking: if you are XX seconds ahead of John Doe in his Blasto Special at Mid Ohio, that you will be the same amount at Road Atlanta??

Maybe. If the car you drive is similar, yes.

Maybe not. Case in point: Andy Bettencourt and Greg Amy. I'll use those guys as an example because they post here and many are familiar with them. Greg won the ARRCs in ITA in his Nissan NX2000. But at Lime Rock, Greg has his hands full of Bettencourt Miata, and Andy has taken home a number of first place trophies.

Why? Because the Miata is a great handler, and gets down the 85+ MPH downhill turn leading onto the semi short Lime Rock straight a significant amount faster then most ITA cars, Gregs included. Lime Rock is technical and momentum oriented, similar in many respects to Mid Ohio.

But at Road Atlanta, Greg was king...because the lead his motor built on the straight was too much for the rest of the track to equilize.

So, if your cars strengths tend to be power oriented, your relative performance should be better at RA than your comparative competition. And vice versa. Does that make sense?

[Hracer]

Maybe not. Case in point: Andy Bettencourt and Greg Amy.
...
But at Road Atlanta, Greg was king...because the lead his motor built on the straight was too much for the rest of the track to equilize.
[/b]

I don't know if we can use those two people for comparison, when one of them has not even yet run Road Atlanta I am really looking forward to see how fast the Miatas will be next year, particularly Bob Stretch once he gets his figured out, and also Andy if he decides to run. As far as Greg's motor, that is that car's single biggest strength. It was fun watching Joe Moser's ITA incar video and see the dramatic contrast between the two very different, but equal cars. But I would disagree with Greg's lead on the straight as being too much for the rest of the track to equalize. In fact, based on just Joe's video of the first 10 mins of the race, it seemed like he had things under control every lap and was just waiting to make his move, probably in the last 10 mins of the race.

A thing about Road Atlanta, I honestly think it is a very difficult track to really get right. First, it is quite intimidating, which plays a big part in the learning curve. Second, although many can go around there plenty fast, it seems a lot fewer people can actually squeeze those last drops of speed out of that place. And being a difficult track, there are quite a few drops to be found.

it all depends on how well you adapt to road atlanta. for some reason i cannot find the time i am missing at ra. my car is plenty quick at RA but i beleive i am throwing time away at a # of corners.
[/b]

Agreed Rick. You are really fast at the other place I've been on track with you - VIR. If you could somehow get that same speed out of Road Atlanta, you would be right there up front.

[Greg Amy]

...it seemed like he had things under control every lap and was just waiting to make his move, probably in the last 10 mins of the race.
[/b]

I completely agree. Joe was running a very smart, calculated race, designed to allow the two of us to move along and break away, without losing touch of said leader. I certainly know where *I* would have passed; those last 2-3 laps would have been a hoot!

The most famous saying in racing applies: "Just wait'll next year!"

[Hracer]

I completely agree. Joe was running a very smart, calculated race, designed to allow the two of us to move along and break away, without losing touch of said leader. I certainly know where *I* would have passed; those last 2-3 laps would have been a hoot!

The most famous saying in racing applies: "Just wait'll next year!"
[/b]

That's what it looked like from the sidelines. I was really looking forward to the last 5 or so laps of that race.

Ipress, my comment about Bob's car mainly came from what he wrote on here a month ago.

I have my own ITA 1.8 miata, but I have a feeling it is going to be down on power. We came too late to this ball game and our car hasn't had the development it needs. [/b]

[IPRESS]

I don't know if we can use those two people for comparison, when one of them has not even yet run Road Atlanta I am really looking forward to see how fast the Miatas will be next year, particularly Bob Stretch once he gets his figured out, and also Andy if he decides to run. As far as Greg's motor, that is that car's single biggest strength. It was fun watching Joe Moser's ITA incar video and see the dramatic contrast between the two very different, but equal cars. But I would disagree with Greg's lead on the straight as being too much for the rest of the track to equalize. In fact, based on just Joe's video of the first 10 mins of the race, it seemed like he had things under control every lap and was just waiting to make his move, probably in the last 10 mins of the race.

A thing about Road Atlanta, I honestly think it is a very difficult track to really get right. First, it is quite intimidating, which plays a big part in the learning curve. Second, although many can go around there plenty fast, it seems a lot fewer people can actually squeeze those last drops of speed out of that place. And being a difficult track, there are quite a few drops to be found.

Agreed Rick. You are really fast at the other place I've been on track with you - VIR. If you could somehow get that same speed out of Road Atlanta, you would be right there up front.
[/b]

Bob has been working on the miata in ITA longer then you guys think. He has always been pretty good at getting power in the past ie David's car (240) that Bob use to lap the heck out of all the SOWDIV miatas with back in the day. Actually I think this is Bob's second attempt at the IT miata. I also think he and Chris sort of threw their hands up the first time. He seems closer now, but I think most of Bob's drives during the ARRC weekend were as good as they were becuse he was wringing as much out of his car as he could get. It is not just coming out of T7 either. The few times I was able to see Bob (and Kip in the ITS race) go through T5 they had to carry their momentum on the very edge to keep ahead of the "Tork Monsters". What I mean is, Bob's car might get a little better, but I don't think there is much more. He seems to get the max of whats there. I know it is great to see those guys make the girly car go through the turns.

[lateapex911]

I don't know if we can use those two people for comparison, when one of them has not even yet run Road Atlanta I am really looking forward to see how fast the Miatas will be next year, particularly Bob Stretch once he gets his figured out, and also Andy if he decides to run. As far as Greg's motor, that is that car's single biggest strength. It was fun watching Joe Moser's ITA incar video and see the dramatic contrast between the two very different, but equal cars. But I would disagree with Greg's lead on the straight as being too much for the rest of the track to equalize. In fact, based on just Joe's video of the first 10 mins of the race, it seemed like he had things under control every lap and was just waiting to make his move, probably in the last 10 mins of the race.

[/b]

Interesting....

But I should note that the CRX crowd begged to differ. I got some poo hurled at me privately after the ARRC, and the term, "You've legislated the CRX out of competition" was used.

My reaction was that no way is the car uncompetitive, and that it can win at lots of tracks on any day.....AND, if the race had been diffferent in Atlanta, (Amy breaks, or tosses it away under pressure) the result could have been much different.

The reply was, "Doesn't matter, the result is the result. The guys who go to Atlanta go to win, not to finish 2nd or 3rd, and that car can't win there the way it's classed, esp against a car that has that kind of power. The CRXs have every last hp there is to be had, hundreds of dyno runs, and thousands of dollars were spent, and they were destroyed on the straight. You can't class cars like that, Road Atlanta has to be your classing benchmark"

Well, it's too late for that, and I don't necessarily agree with that philosophy anyway. But, there are those close to the heart of the CRX camp that swear the car is toast.

(For the record, I disagree)