IT7 Spec tire YES OR NO ??
- Thread starter Tere
- Start date
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
No spec tire.
dobsontowing
New member
No to spec tire
Brian Dobson
IT-7 #6
IT-A #6
Brian Dobson
IT-7 #6
IT-A #6
Mike Guenther
New member
Freedom of choice. No spec tire requirement. Freedom of competition between tire manufacturers to develope better tires at competitive value, (cost versus performance and longevity). No spec tire monopoly.
For what its worth, let me say that I use the tire that is currently spec'd. I have used several of two other brands also and made my decision based on performance and longevity with some cost consideration. But this is one area that I think each person should be able to make that decision based on their own evaluation and not be forced into one brand.
For what its worth, let me say that I use the tire that is currently spec'd. I have used several of two other brands also and made my decision based on performance and longevity with some cost consideration. But this is one area that I think each person should be able to make that decision based on their own evaluation and not be forced into one brand.
NO SPEC TIRE! This is a safety and cost issue to real racing. The Toyo is tall and hard. Therefore, it will require lowering the Rx7 into the bump stops to meet the ride height limit. Hitting a bump stop results in instance oversteer or understeer depend on which end bottoms first. A hard tire WILL be softened until it is as soft as possible and still make the race distance or come apart. Racing is about optimizing parameters within the confines of the rules. What I have stated above is not outside the rules.
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
Tere,
Unless you know these people or can identify them as from the SEDiv, unknown voters should not count if you are taking a poll on which to base your decision.
Unless you know these people or can identify them as from the SEDiv, unknown voters should not count if you are taking a poll on which to base your decision.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Ahhhhhhhhhh. the safety card!!!
LOL.
Didn't Lukas WIN the ARRCs one year on those same tall hard, and clearly unsafe Toyos?
Good chuckle, that!
Catch22
New member
I am not an IT7 driver, but I have lots of experience with Spec Tires, especially Spec Toyo RA1s. So here is some information. Thats all it is, you can choose to take it or leave it.
There is a common misconception that a Toyo Spec tire "Levels the playing field." As any frontrunning, experienced racer will tell you (especially one thats been in Spec Miata for the last few years) this just isn't true. The absolute WORST choice for a spec tire is one that needs to be shaved and performs very differently at different levels of shavedness. You know, like the Toyo RA1.
Let me explain...
You spec a Toyo tire because you think the guys with the most money to buy new Hoosiers every weekend have a distinct advantage. So if everyone has to run Toyos that advantage is gone... Right?
Wrong. A guy that can run new Hoosiers every weekend can also afford to shave his Toyos to 1/32, use them once or twice, and throw them away. Meanwhile, Captain Budget is using 4 to 6/32 tires and trying to get 4 weekends out of them. By the time they are at 1/32, they are heat cycled a dozen times and are sort of crappy.
So, what have you gained? Is everyone on the same tire?
Well... Everyone is on the same brand of tire, but everyone is not on the same tire. The guys who had the advantage before still have the advantage, and the grid order hasn't changed at all. All you managed to do was give Toyo a monopoly and reduce your own choices.
Don't believe me?
Look at SM. They have been on spec toyos, open tires, and back to spec toyos over the past few seasons. Have you seen ANY change in who is at the front of the grid???
I know this is a hard concept to swallow, and many just simply refuse to do so. And thats your choice.
But I have a feeling that all IT7 will accomplish with a spec toyo is running off alot of cars to ITA. Thats fine tough, its a good ITA car now.
Really want to spec a tire? Something that guarantees drivers are actually on equal ground on the most occassions? Spec a Hoosier or a Kumho. Tires that gain nothing by shaving them. Tires that can run up to 6 (or even 10) heat cycles without falling off if you care for them properly. THAT gets all the drivers on the "same" tires alot more often than the Toyos do.
Just some info.
Carry on...
There is a common misconception that a Toyo Spec tire "Levels the playing field." As any frontrunning, experienced racer will tell you (especially one thats been in Spec Miata for the last few years) this just isn't true. The absolute WORST choice for a spec tire is one that needs to be shaved and performs very differently at different levels of shavedness. You know, like the Toyo RA1.
Let me explain...
You spec a Toyo tire because you think the guys with the most money to buy new Hoosiers every weekend have a distinct advantage. So if everyone has to run Toyos that advantage is gone... Right?
Wrong. A guy that can run new Hoosiers every weekend can also afford to shave his Toyos to 1/32, use them once or twice, and throw them away. Meanwhile, Captain Budget is using 4 to 6/32 tires and trying to get 4 weekends out of them. By the time they are at 1/32, they are heat cycled a dozen times and are sort of crappy.
So, what have you gained? Is everyone on the same tire?
Well... Everyone is on the same brand of tire, but everyone is not on the same tire. The guys who had the advantage before still have the advantage, and the grid order hasn't changed at all. All you managed to do was give Toyo a monopoly and reduce your own choices.
Don't believe me?
Look at SM. They have been on spec toyos, open tires, and back to spec toyos over the past few seasons. Have you seen ANY change in who is at the front of the grid???
I know this is a hard concept to swallow, and many just simply refuse to do so. And thats your choice.
But I have a feeling that all IT7 will accomplish with a spec toyo is running off alot of cars to ITA. Thats fine tough, its a good ITA car now.
Really want to spec a tire? Something that guarantees drivers are actually on equal ground on the most occassions? Spec a Hoosier or a Kumho. Tires that gain nothing by shaving them. Tires that can run up to 6 (or even 10) heat cycles without falling off if you care for them properly. THAT gets all the drivers on the "same" tires alot more often than the Toyos do.
Just some info.
Carry on...
gprodracer
New member
OK,
Have your blow torches ready..
Toni Creighton comes on this board 4-6 weeks ago, and essentially asks the same question.....Initially, there were very few responses, then suddenly the topic catches fire, and soon there are 8 pages or so of very heated debate posted. Some questioned motives, family members, etc, and some were screaming that they never voted the first time, while others were saying that this forum wasn't inclusive enough, and suggested that there unnamed personal agendas.
Well, which is it?
And why aren't all of you who were involved in the first threads compliaining now? There were a lot of intelligent (and some not so) posts on this topic, but now that the question is asked again, we get a bunch of simple yes or no responses? Several argued with me that Toni should have said nothing, and let the rule be "rubber stamped" without letting you know it was up for vote. Silly me, I said that I thought it was a good idea to inform the participants about votes that would affect their class for the next year.
You all wonder why, or how things don't go the way you want them to?? I have absolutely no dog in this hunt, I was just posting in favor of keeping you all up to speed on whether rules would be voted on "with or without your input".
Sorry people, at this point you derserve what you get. Hopefully we've all learned something...
Mark
Have your blow torches ready..
Toni Creighton comes on this board 4-6 weeks ago, and essentially asks the same question.....Initially, there were very few responses, then suddenly the topic catches fire, and soon there are 8 pages or so of very heated debate posted. Some questioned motives, family members, etc, and some were screaming that they never voted the first time, while others were saying that this forum wasn't inclusive enough, and suggested that there unnamed personal agendas.
Well, which is it?
And why aren't all of you who were involved in the first threads compliaining now? There were a lot of intelligent (and some not so) posts on this topic, but now that the question is asked again, we get a bunch of simple yes or no responses? Several argued with me that Toni should have said nothing, and let the rule be "rubber stamped" without letting you know it was up for vote. Silly me, I said that I thought it was a good idea to inform the participants about votes that would affect their class for the next year.
You all wonder why, or how things don't go the way you want them to?? I have absolutely no dog in this hunt, I was just posting in favor of keeping you all up to speed on whether rules would be voted on "with or without your input".
Sorry people, at this point you derserve what you get. Hopefully we've all learned something...
Mark