ITR on Speedtv.com
- Thread starter planet6racing
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orlando_wrx
New member
Yea for the media, putting pressure on the modernization of club racing.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Except it was written BY SCCA Communications...let's call it 'internal pressure'
the fact that SCCA actually has something on the AP wire is amazing. I am happy to see it out there, and I think SCCA should be public about this. It serves more then one purpose, it brings the attention of the classes to potential new members now that they can buy that supped up 5 year old WC car and race it.
Bill Miller
New member
I have to say, I'm impressed. Things seem to have come full-circle from a 'too many classes' mentality to an "let's give the people what they want" mentality.
For those of you that haven't been around that long, this stuff happened in the blink of an eye, in SCCA-time. I imagine that there are a few categories/classes out there that will be a bit nervous once they read that press release.
For those of you that haven't been around that long, this stuff happened in the blink of an eye, in SCCA-time. I imagine that there are a few categories/classes out there that will be a bit nervous once they read that press release.
orlando_wrx
New member
Except it was written BY SCCA Communications...let's call it 'internal pressure'
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yeah, im a dumbarse, I saw it on the scca website as a press release about 2 minutes after I posted that. go easy on me
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Cool. well it IS big news .....a pretty significant shift in attitude, and I like it!
(And yes, i know, be careful what you wish for, LOL, but as far as ITR goes, we'll be OK)
(And yes, i know, be careful what you wish for, LOL, but as far as ITR goes, we'll be OK)
Bildon
New member
>> this stuff happened in the blink of an eye, in SCCA-time.
Yup, about 2 or 3 years I think. Which for SCCA is fast. A few years back when I was trying to put together a WC effort this was a common topic in the SCCA WC Forum.
Very good news
A victory for touring car fans in America who perfer modern race cars to fiberglass bodies, cast iron and convertibles. I had an MG ... it aint no RSX ! 
Yup, about 2 or 3 years I think. Which for SCCA is fast. A few years back when I was trying to put together a WC effort this was a common topic in the SCCA WC Forum.
Very good news
A victory for touring car fans in America who perfer modern race cars to fiberglass bodies, cast iron and convertibles. I had an MG ... it aint no RSX !
lateapex911
Super Moderator
LOL...but the BMW guys say that ITR sucks for them as well...and that it's going to cost them like $11K to convert.....redevelopment, wheels, etc.
Z3_GoCar
New member
I guess a BMW driver has to come into the class with a new car to not have an ax to grind. I wonder if there'll be any 328 drivers out there that'll come over to ITR. I was told that the reason there aren't any 328's in World Challenge was that the rules were rewritten to favor the 2.5. This included non-stock rods and pistons. So you put an IT type prep aginst a production type prep, but give the IT prep ~300cc's, then wonder which one comes out on top 
Well I'm glad that I'm going to have a class to run in with out getting run over.
James
Well I'm glad that I'm going to have a class to run in with out getting run over. James
dj10
New member
LOL...but the BMW guys say that ITR sucks for them as well...and that it's going to cost them like $11K to convert.....redevelopment, wheels, etc.
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Who said that Jake? Unless we can change to larger brakes brakes? The only thing that will cost us money is the larger wheels? Again unless I missed something?
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Well, I'm not at liberty to quote the letter or the source of course, but it's safe to say that the ITAC and CRB have received mostly positive response about ITR, except from BMW drivers, who have told us that they do not like the idea of being "forcefully moved" against their will, as one letter writer put it.
Others have said they would like dual classification for their cars. Interestingly, none have asked for categorical dual classification for all cars currently in ITS. And others say the car is too heavy to compete, but it can't make the weight as listed.
Yes, I found the $11,000 quote to be a bit 'stout'. He was adding all the money spent on the SIR, a new rollcage, complete engine development post SIR, all new wheels, (multiple sets) and tires, plus new spings, damper and rollbar settings and testing, (off the top of my head).
Others have said they would like dual classification for their cars. Interestingly, none have asked for categorical dual classification for all cars currently in ITS. And others say the car is too heavy to compete, but it can't make the weight as listed.
Yes, I found the $11,000 quote to be a bit 'stout'. He was adding all the money spent on the SIR, a new rollcage, complete engine development post SIR, all new wheels, (multiple sets) and tires, plus new spings, damper and rollbar settings and testing, (off the top of my head).
As a BMW racer I have mixed feelings on current ITS vs ITR. In ITS I feel I know where I stand, my biggest challenge is the RX7, maybe with some remapping, changing exhaust syatem and gearing I might be able to gain back some of what I lost with the SIR deal. In ITR I don't know what I'm up against. I think the 325 will be good for a while until other cars get built and dialed in. As I've said before in IT you can try and match cars with weight and maybe SIRs but since different cars work differently you'll never really know until they hit the track. At leat with ITR I can spend money to go faster.
I do think the BMW has been jerked around a fair bit! First all the buggering around to slow the car down then one year later more buggering around to try and go faster than before. Maybe the "weennies" who took their stick and ball to go play elsewhere had the right idea. Give it a few years, see if the dust settles and then decide wether or not to come back.
Me, I'll stick with it and see how it goes.
Cheers.
John
I do think the BMW has been jerked around a fair bit! First all the buggering around to slow the car down then one year later more buggering around to try and go faster than before. Maybe the "weennies" who took their stick and ball to go play elsewhere had the right idea. Give it a few years, see if the dust settles and then decide wether or not to come back.
Me, I'll stick with it and see how it goes.
Cheers.
John
Oh, puh-leez - give us a freakin' break.
I REALLY hope that the CRB has learned from this lesson. They should have followed the system, given them lead when the math indicated it was appropriate, and moved on with life. Some of these folks are like dealing with junior high school kids: the more room they feel like they have to whine and negotiate, the more they will do so.
Regarding "forcefully moved," I'd argue that they should all stay in ITS with the SIR. ITR is a good idea even if it doesn't "addres the BMW question," so let it succeed. Of course, that's also the best way to guarantee that the whining minority will demand that they be moved to ITR.
I have a lot of respect for Mr. Norris, getting on with the business rather than pissing and moaning but some of these guys. Wah.
K
lateapex911
Super Moderator
I rarely use many of the silly smiley things, but in this case......
AGREED!
mlytle
New member
only thing itr will cost of e36 325bmw's is some new vinyl and a bunch of hours spent finding things to take off the car to make it lighter. since we can't do bigger brakes, bigger wheels just mean more unsprung weight.
unless we all dump our 325's to get z3 2.8...somehow they got classed with the bigger engine at the same weight as the 325....hmmmm. hopefully that was one of the mistakes in the fastrack version of the class list.
marshall
marrs itr #64
JeffYoung
New member
We are working on fixing the engine classifications on the BMW cars, but note that the Z3s have a far less sophisticated rear suspension than the E36. So, some weight compensation is appropriate.
How much more power will the 2.8 make over the 2.5? We've wondered on that one quite a bit.
What amazes me the most about this whoel situation is that, all arguing, spitting and cutting aside, the plain hard numbers show that the E36 at 2850 has a better power to weight ratio than anyother ITS car. Period. That's why rookie drivers and/or non-full prepped cars run up front. A lot of this talk from the BMW camp seems to stem from the fact that it will now take full prep/well driven efforts to run up front, whereas before the misclassification of the car created a situation where the E36 was clearly the car to have.
It's funny, as I've gotten better at this sport, and improved my car, I've raced with RX7s and 240zs and 240sxs in the back of the pack that were learning with me. Never did see a slow E36......
Will the 325 be as competitive in ITR as it is in ITS? I hope not, because that was the plan. Make it run in a place where it takes a full prep effort to run up front. And that, gentlemen, is fair -- although I agree the mess with the SIR, the timing, etc. was not. But remember, the whole reason the car ended up in that mess is because it was classed wrong from the start.
How much more power will the 2.8 make over the 2.5? We've wondered on that one quite a bit.
What amazes me the most about this whoel situation is that, all arguing, spitting and cutting aside, the plain hard numbers show that the E36 at 2850 has a better power to weight ratio than anyother ITS car. Period. That's why rookie drivers and/or non-full prepped cars run up front. A lot of this talk from the BMW camp seems to stem from the fact that it will now take full prep/well driven efforts to run up front, whereas before the misclassification of the car created a situation where the E36 was clearly the car to have.
It's funny, as I've gotten better at this sport, and improved my car, I've raced with RX7s and 240zs and 240sxs in the back of the pack that were learning with me. Never did see a slow E36......
Will the 325 be as competitive in ITR as it is in ITS? I hope not, because that was the plan. Make it run in a place where it takes a full prep effort to run up front. And that, gentlemen, is fair -- although I agree the mess with the SIR, the timing, etc. was not. But remember, the whole reason the car ended up in that mess is because it was classed wrong from the start.